US has 6% of worlds COVID deaths

[duenor]

You didn't answer the question. You dissembled.

Because it is a complex discussion. It appears however that you have only the bandwidth for simple answers. I could say, for example, Britain's NHS. To which you'll say, "yeah but, commie socialist something something blah blah." And we'd go around in circles like that ad nauseum.

[bigbossman]

Because it is a complex discussion. It appears however that you have only the bandwidth for simple answers. I could say, for example, Britain's NHS. To which you'll say, "yeah but, commie socialist something something blah blah." And we'd go around in circles like that ad nauseum.

More dissembling. You ridicule a fellow CG member for saying we had the best healthcare in this country. It would seem it's incumbent upon you to name an alternate. Instead, you try your old tired deflection routine b start in with the insults, and offer up some kind of John Kerry'ish "nuanced" babble.

[shovelon]

Because it is a complex discussion. It appears however that you have only the bandwidth for simple answers. I could say, for example, Britain's NHS. To which you'll say, "yeah but, commie socialist something something blah blah." And we'd go around in circles like that ad nauseum.

What brand of chicanery is this?

[Scota4570]

All BS aside, one might use cancer survival rates as a measure of a health care system. By that metric the united Kingdom sucks and the US is second in the world.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/cancer-survival-rates-by-country

I know a lady who fell ill in Italy at about 80 YO. Kidney trouble. The Italian doctors told her it was her time and they would do nothing to help. She came back to the US and received treatment. She will be 100 YO soon. That is 2nd degree murder.

In the US you have to put in your work to get decent care. It is expensive. The docs on the list that are seeing new patients is because they suck. IF you seek quality doctors you can get great care.

This is a problem in managed care co-ops. The specialists in my area vary from incompetent to criminal. One I was refeed to lost his medical license for doing unnecessary surgery. And, yep, he wanted to do ill advised surgery on me in two days time. I hope he rots in hell. You have to be your own advocate.

Like the co-ops we will never have good care if a government agency manages it for all. We are not children, stop begging the government to be a parent.

[bigbossman]

What brand of chicanery is this?

The same old tired chicanery we know and expect from this fellow. Insults and deflection.

[five.five-six]

We still have criminals who never bought healthcare.

[Scota4570]

We still have criminals who never bought healthcare.

They used to get free care at the county hospital. They were called indigents. The same doctors as the good hospital were required to do community service at the county hospital. They worked for free and county hospital charged nothing.

Then the government stepped in and required all hospitals to serve everyone the same way whether they paid or not. That is when it went off the rails. Now everyone who pays, pays stupid money. If you are insured they negotiate the price down. Noninsurance they bankrupt you. If you are indigent you get it all and pay nothing. IT is a stupid system. It encourage a-holes. It would be better to roll the clock back about 50 years. Better for the responsible people anyway. It would be fair to everyone. Nobody would be deprived of competent care.

[LBDamned]

You didn't answer the question. You dissembled.

He wants socialized medicine.

[LBDamned]

The same old tired chicanery we know and expect from this fellow. Insults and deflection.

It's what they do.

[bigbossman]

He wants socialized medicine.

I know..... and I know that he won't just come out and say it. Hence the dissembling when asked.

The problem with socialized medicine is that, should you require a specialist and attention right now for something like cancer or heart surgery, you'll get shuffled off to wait and die in a 9 month que. That is by design - it's cheaper to have you wait and die than to give you the attention you need. That is why Canadians and Brits come here for top-notch urgent medical attention. If the US goes to socialized medicine, the whole world is SOL.

[Danodog]

Maybe we can ask the Chinese what they did. They have under 5,000 deaths. Hahaha!

[SmokeTheClay]

I'm sure other countries are counting deaths with the same rules and diligence as we are

[LBDamned]

I'm sure other countries are counting deaths with the same rules and diligence as we are

No one knows any of the numbers. Especially people on internet forums.

But many will say they do

The whole thing is a clown show.

[bigbossman]

No one knows any of the numbers. Especially people on internet forums.

But many will say they do

The whole thing is a clown show.

Honesty, I fail to understand how this is not glaringly obvious to anyone with two gray cells to rub together.

[Den60]

It goes back to the question of, "best health care for who?"

I have pretty awesome health care, for example. I pay a puny co pay each time I go to the doctor, I'm covered no matter where I go in the world, and there is a hard cap on how much I will ever have to pay out of pocket.

I have two professions. In one, I supervise a number of people of varying ranks and pay grades. Last year, I had 8 employees at the lowest rank, making slightly more than minimum wage. They aren't poor enough for medi-cal, they are too young for medicare, and they can't afford obamacare. One of them was diabetic, and when he got that job he was promptly informed by medi-cal that he would no longer qualify. so he begged his doctor to him him stock his fridge full of insulin and just hoped that he would land a better job or be able to go back to medi-cal before it ran out.

a lot of the casualties from covid19 are among those who are poor. here in los angeles, the bottom barrel communities, the ones that work in meat plants and factories and farms, got trashed - cudahay, vernon, san bernandino, etc.

so to answer your question, I can only say that to me, the totality of a nation's health care system ought to be at least in large part judged by its ability to provide a basic modicum of care for all of its citizens.

You confuse "care" with affordability. Our health care is top quality. As for non-insured getting treatment, all you need to do is go to a hospital ER and see uninsured patients being treated. Add in bringing in hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens annually and you are going to stress the system. Back in 1988, UCSD Medical Center lost some $8M per year because of unreimbursed costs of treatment.

Your diabetes employee should look into the 340B program in order to obtain insulin and greatly reduced pricing.