Italy; The poster child for socialized medicine

[FireCloud9]

Not even then, because the health care system won't be the only variable in the mix

True.

That being said, we will have a test bed of some ~200 countries from which to compare data points.

[the_tunaman]

With limited number of resources, it's either
- treat whoever got there first, or
- treat whoever has better odds of recovery.

Either choice sucks. Years from now doctors will still be regretting having to make it. Hospitals here may face same dilemma.

You missed two:

- treat whomever has the most cash;
- treat whomever has the most clout;

That is the way it works in a Socialist society.

[gwanghoops]

The United States; The poster child for capitalism and freedom

with the most deaths and most cases, we're #1

[vf111]

The United States; The poster child for capitalism and freedom

with the most deaths and most cases, we're #1

You're forgetting some things: there may be various agendas in the US to report as many cases as possible (Orange Man Bad) while in some countries they are reporting as few as possible to save face (think China). You also have to take into account the population # : totals don't mean jack***t, you have to look at the ratio in order to make a valid comparison.

[Den60]

The United States; The poster child for capitalism and freedom

with the most deaths and most cases, we're #1

Multiply China's numbers by about 100. No one believes 82K cases and 3,341 deaths. I'm not sure 100 as a factor is even high enough. I would think the numbers we see for New York City would be something similar to what China has experienced. Likely even worse in the number of deaths than NYC given their poor air quality and the fact that Chinese smoke more than Americans.

On a per capita basis we are doing better than most of Europe, pretty similar to Denmark. We have tested over 3M so far and should go past 4M shortly. No one else is testing as much as us and many countries are relying on tests with no proven accuracy. Additionally, anyone who is infected with Covid-19 and dies in the US is being listed as dying from the virus regardless of their other pre-existing health issues.

These are all pretty simple concepts so I hope you can understand them.

[gwanghoops]

You're forgetting some things: there may be various agendas in the US to report as many cases as possible (Orange Man Bad) while in some countries they are reporting as few as possible to save face (think China). You also have to take into account the population # : totals don't mean jack***t, you have to look at the ratio in order to make a valid comparison.

i was making fun of the whole premise of this thread -- looking at a few numbers about Italy and concluding socialized medicine is bad.

[SW1917]

"- treat whomever has the most cash;
- treat whomever has the most clout;"

Funny you mention that- thats our system too
"Fisher Island — an exclusive enclave of multi-million dollar condos and homes and one of the wealthiest ZIP Codes in the country — has purchased thousands of rapid COVID-19 blood test kits from the University of Miami Health System for all of its residents and workers."


Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/cor...#storylink=cpy

[sd_shooter]

The United States; The poster child for capitalism and freedom

with the most deaths and most cases, we're #1

Consider the number of tests completed and also divide into population. We're actually in great shape, not even as bad as a flu season. (So far...)

[TheGood]

Multiply China's numbers by about 100. No one believes 82K cases and 3,341 deaths. I'm not sure 100 as a factor is even high enough.

I'm thinking it was closer to a factor of 1000.

[harbormaster]

The failures of socialized medicine will be well hidden. The fact the states were not prepared will fall on Trump (thanks to a complicit and zealous media). Capitalist solutions will be down played as ineffective, with anecdotal failures, and only successful with government intrusion. Best get use to this.

[jarhead714]

The communists have had a foothold on that boot for decades. They have marches and everything.

[capo]

The failures of socialized medicine will be well hidden. The fact the states were not prepared will fall on Trump (thanks to a complicit and zealous media). Capitalist solutions will be down played as ineffective, with anecdotal failures, and only successful with government intrusion. Best get use to this.

At the same time people have championed the response from South Korea and Sweden... both places with socialized medicine.

Perhaps hasty generalizations aren't the best way to summarize cause and effect here.

[TheGood]

The failures of socialized medicine will be well hidden. The fact the states were not prepared will fall on Trump (thanks to a complicit and zealous media). Capitalist solutions will be down played as ineffective, with anecdotal failures, and only successful with government intrusion. Best get use to this.

That's the insidious nature of propaganda. The far left (communists) have been at it for many years, and it's been working. Now anything center-right is being called ultra-conservative or 'nazi', yet they are the people who are pushing for national socialism (nazi).

[Wherryj]

Unfortunately leftists keep saying our semi-free market system is woefully unprepared for a pandemic so big government should somehow fix that with single payer.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

Well, forget the fact that it was the government getting into healthcare that gutted our system in the first place...

[Wherryj]

That's the insidious nature of propaganda. The far left (communists) have been at it for many years, and it's been working. Now anything center-right is being called ultra-conservative or 'nazi', yet they are the people who are pushing for national socialism (nazi).

I agree. I even see regular news citations that call Tim Pool, a known Tulsi Gabbard loving classic liberal, a far right voice. He's relatively independent in his coverage, but if he got any further left he would pass Chairman Mao.