VEPR 12 Laws

[jdben92883]

The CSSPEC mags are 8-rounders. The SGM's are sketchy IMO and yes they do hold 11 rounds. I believe they all do by design.

So the SGM ones are bunk I take it? Also, if i go with molot, then i def need to change out more parts to be compliant...Can anyone else confirm that the CSSPEC mags hold 11 rounds. Even if it wont function with 11, I would imagine the state wouldn't care and consider you in violation.

[FiveSeven]

There are many parts that can be swapped out.
FCG (tapco), PG, HG, Muzzle device, gas puck, OP rod (CSS) even stock on a folder then use screw and a nut trough release button hole to keep it as fixed.

[icantdrive55]

The gun can have 10 or less imported parts to stay 922 compliant. If you only use the included Molot 5-round magazine, you don't need to worry about it. But who buys a Vepr 12 to run 5-round mags? If you want to use the SGM 10-rounders or the MUCH nicer CSSPEC 8-rounders, then you have to do a little work on the shotgun. Fortunately, making the gun 922 compliant can easily be done at Carolina Shooters Supply for $100.

Get their:
- Gas Piston PUC - $19
- Modified Trigger Group - $45
- Pistol Grip of Your Choice - $20
- JTE Performance Power Hammer Spring - $10 (doesn't count as a 922 part, but is a nice upgrade)

When used with your USA mags (which count as 3 parts), you're good-to-go.

Thank you for this information. I will be making it 922 compliant in the near future.

[jdben92883]

Does the muzzle thread cap count as an import part? I didn't think putting a U.S. muzzle device helped for 922.

You seem to have run yours with a lot of different mags. I just took mine out with some CSSPECS mags and it wouldn't eject Euro-crimped buckshot 90% of the time. I'm pretty sure I ran that ammo before, but this was only the 2nd time I used the metal mags. Prior to that, the gun was 100% with everything including bird loads. The metal mags ran standard-crimp buck, bird and slugs A-OK, just not the Herter's buckshot.

There are many parts that can be swapped out.
FCG (tapco), PG, HG, Muzzle device, gas puck, OP rod (CSS) even stock on a folder then use screw and a nut trough release button hole to keep it as fixed.

[FiveSeven]

Does the muzzle thread cap count as an import part? I didn't think putting a U.S. muzzle device helped for 922.

You seem to have run yours with a lot of different mags. I just took mine out with some CSSPECS mags and it wouldn't eject Euro-crimped buckshot 90% of the time. I'm pretty sure I ran that ammo before, but this was only the 2nd time I used the metal mags. Prior to that, the gun was 100% with everything including bird loads. The metal mags ran standard-crimp buck, bird and slugs A-OK, just not the Herter's buckshot.

I believe any muzzle device counts as a part if used on a firearm, just like a mag.
CSSPECS can be ruined if not filled down properly, so far out of 6 I only filled down 2 but they all need work to function. You have to remove just the right amount and it can be tricky, if you to far as its not reversible (obviously).
It's quite simple to tell if it's the mag or not, just shoot one of each with the same ammo.

[Ubermcoupe]

Oh yeah definitely. Both the SGM's and CSSPEC's are US made. I had the SGM 10-rounders and didn't like the fact they held 11 (even though the company said they were designed that way and they don't actually function/insert with 11 rounds in them). They also were a little harder to load than the metal CSSPEC 8-rounders that I currently have and prefer.

So the SGM ones are bunk I take it? Also, if i go with molot, then i def need to change out more parts to be compliant...Can anyone else confirm that the CSSPEC mags hold 11 rounds. Even if it wont function with 11, I would imagine the state wouldn't care and consider you in violation.

[sl0re10]

There are many parts that can be swapped out.
FCG (tapco), PG, HG, Muzzle device, gas puck, OP rod (CSS) even stock on a folder then use screw and a nut trough release button hole to keep it as fixed.

yup; muzzle device is another easy one. I did that too.

[sl0re10]

So the SGM ones are bunk I take it? Also, if i go with molot, then i def need to change out more parts to be compliant...Can anyone else confirm that the CSSPEC mags hold 11 rounds. Even if it wont function with 11, I would imagine the state wouldn't care and consider you in violation.

I actually have a saiga 12, but my SGM mags have worked perfectly for me.

[thegreatcow]

Aye same boat here too. Love the SGMs, though they are a bit stiff at first and definitely require a bit of breaking in. Agree about the mag lock though, so infuriating to deal with.

[Grakken]

I will probably get the following. This would mean i can use whatever mag (Ruskie or US) i want right?

-JTE Performance Power Hammer Spring /Main Spring for All Saiga and AK variants

-SAIGA 12/VEPR 12 TROMIX "MINI-MONSTER" BRAKE (Counts as 1 part)

-CHAOS QUAD RAIL-VEPR 12 (Counts as 1 part)

-GRIP AK/SAIGA FINGER GROOVE UPG47 (Counts as 1 part)

-BRAKE LOCK NUT(BARREL NUT) FOR SAIGA/VEPR 12- RUSSIAN STYLE

-TRIGGER GROUP- MODIFIED SAIGA/VEPR FIRE CONTROL GROUP (counts as 3 parts)

-GAS PISTON VEPR 12 PUC (counts as 1 part)

That is 7 parts. Figured i would get more US parts than needed.. just in case


Now I need to find some mags...

[beatstanfurd]

If I understand correctly, there has been no decision specifically concerning the VEPR12 from the ATF with the official part count, but reading up at the Saiga 12 forums, CSS says that the VEPR12 and the Saiga12 have the same part counts.

I've been going by the 922r calculators for the Saiga12 at http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/BuildSaig...rifyCompliance

One thing to keep in mind is that the stock Saiga12 does not have a pistol grip and the calculator defaults to no pistol grip when you reset it. The VEPR12 does have one and needs to be accounted for as a foreign part if not swapped out.

[Grakken]

I think the magic number is 15 parts on the vepr, though i'm no expert.

[Stanze]

Fed laws/regs aside or addressed. Are VFG on a fixed mag autoloading shotgun CA legal?

The flowchart and members posting photos of VFG equipped fixed mag autoloading shotguns are a bit challenging to determine.

[five.five-six]

[Quiet]

Fed laws/regs aside or addressed. Are VFG on a fixed mag autoloading shotgun CA legal?

The flowchart and members posting photos of VFG equipped fixed mag autoloading shotguns are a bit challenging to determine.

CA laws prohibits a semi-auto shotgun from having a folding/collapsing stock and a pistol grip or a vertical grip. [PC 30515(a)(6)]

Therefore...
It is CA legal to have a pistol grip and a vertical grip installed on a semi-auto shotgun with a fixed shoulder stock.



Penal Code 30515
(a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, "assault weapon" also means any of the following:
(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.
(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.