Rock Salt Shells - Legal?

[ZapThyCat]

A drunk guy stumbles onto your porch thinking its his front door and you blast him with a 12ga salt load? That's just friggin' mean, man.
You think about trying a bright flashlight? Or maybe just telling him to f*ck off?
I once lived in a college party area and was out having a fun night when some dude who was staying down the street stumbled into my apartment, made himself some spaghetti (I mean from scratch, not leftovers), and sat down to eat and watch TV.

Drunk and/or high folks don't always realize they are in the wrong apartment. There's a big difference between 4-5 college guys living in a dorm or so, and MY house. If I hear someone cooking downstairs, and my wife is with me in bed... and I can account for my toddler in his room (living quarters are upstairs) I am going down with a bit more than a flashlight. I would like something less than lethal (if they sound like they're cooking, they may not have ill intentions). I can't say the guy in an apron reeking of booze was about to attack me when I shot him in the back with 00 buck...

But if rocksalt is a myth anyway, then it's a moot point. Maybe just the sound of me chambering a load will get him to flee in terror, wondering why his apartment was invaded... the real fun would begin when he called the police on me, telling them it was his place

[E. Fudd]

+1 Bean bags can be lethal at close range (typical indoor distances). Blunt trauma to the head or heart can be fatal. Think of it as a baton strike. Less lethal targets are thighs, stomach, pelvis area (ouch! That's gotta hurt...).

I think the minimum distance to deploy beanbag loads is something like 15 yards, maybe a tad less?

I saw a demo of bean bag load at close range (under 5 yds.) and I was convinced that they are indeed potentially fatal.

Plus, if you aim for the head, even if you don't kill the guy or put him into a coma, you might blind the guy or give him brain damage. Can you image yourself in court being sued by a brain damaged, blind plaintiff in a wheelchair, with his lawyer claiming the poor victim was just confused and went to the wrong house....

Same goes for salt, rubber balls, rubber bullet loads... The chance of blinding someone, injury, subsequent lawsuits, etc. is just not worth it. It's either is a justifiable self-defense use of lethal force situation or it's not. If you are just trying to get someone to go away, yell, scream, use your command presence, use The Force, poop in your pants and run towards him with open arms, drooling....

[mooster]

Beanbags normally deploy by 10 yards. Sock rounds are good down to around 5yds. As with anything, there are statistical variances associated with the round itself and the target. Some folks can take 20 hits with a sock round before taking a hint whereas others (like me) fall over as soon as you point the shotgun in my general direction.

[CHS]

A friend of mine developed a cartridge in his head that he desperately wanted to patent, called the "Irritator".

His concept was a hermetically sealed capsule which would break apart upon leaving the barrel that was filled with sand and pig poop. (edited, looks like I used a bad word)

It wasn't for self defense, it wasn't for warnings, it was for when you wanted to be just plain mean

[jmlivingston]

The guy who taught reloading at my middle school used rock salt loads in a 12ga to chase off ornery dogs who wandered on his property. Said it worked every time.

John

[sb_pete]

Drunk and/or high folks don't always realize they are in the wrong apartment... (if they sound like they're cooking, they may not have ill intentions). I can't say the guy in an apron reeking of booze was about to attack me when I shot him in the back with 00 buck...

LOL, yeah, that would be a little more than excessive force. I was just pointing out that sometimes the mere threat of force can be very effective. One should, of course, be able to follow through with that threat. But there is such a thing as trigger happy. I can see using a pepper/tear-gas load or blunt force LTL shell as the first load in a pump action HD shotgun. Heck there might even be advantages to doing so. I just can't see rock salt (even if it worked as advertised) as anything more than an old-school angry farmer "teach them durned kids to eat MY oranges" thing. YMMV of course.

The apartment story (normal apartment, not dorms though) was really just for comic relief. There is definitely something more "near and dear" about a place in which your little ones are sleeping. I was just laughing at the image of some poor drunken dude fiddling with his keys when the door opens. He thinks his wife is letting him in only to find a face full of "pre-emptive" rock salt .

On another note, there may be something to the theory that it was black powder cartridges with something else like carpet tacks in there. Anyone want to test and post results?

-Pete

[tunder]

Rock salt tested here with poor results.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot33.htm

In my opinion, this would count as a possibly non justifiable use of force here in Missouri. The only time a firearm defense is excused is when your life is felt to be in imminant danger. The use of "non-lethal" ammo is questionable.

[tombinghamthegreat]

It would be nice to have some less-than-lethal rounds that sure would put a hurt on the bad guy....

That is a bad mind set to have for home defense. Use buck shot.

[Guntech]

I sure would like some Rock Salt Shells, but I'm not totally sure they're legal. I have no reason to think they're not, but it's worth checking on these things.

Does anyone have a reloader that can make some of these? It would be nice to have some less-than-lethal rounds that sure would put a hurt on the bad guy....

Load some shells with airsoft bbs no recoil at all and really fun to shoot...not that I do that...it does more damage than rock salts

[KTGunner]

Unfortunately putting a "hurt" on the bad guy doesn't really work in court.....
If you really want to scare someone, just get a laser on the front of you HD gun and rack a round into the chamber. Even if it just points in the general direction of the drunk or whomever, anyone who has seen and Hollywood shot 'em up will piss their pants if the see a gun with a laser. I'm not sure why, but lasers just make guns look scarier.
I've actually seen that work with a Taser as well. The unfortunate thing about Tasers is they don't come with ten-round magazines.

[Sugarfoot47]

I can understand not wanting to use lethal force against someone who was drunk or high and appeared he didn't know it was your house he was in. However, depending on how drunk or high the individual is,he can also become more unpredictable and irrational in their state of mind. I could tell him to leave and most likely he will especially if I have a shotgun pointed at him, or he may take that as an effort on my part to suppress him from doing whatever he feels like doing, and regardless of the firearm, his inflated ego makes him decide to grab the fireplace poker out of it's rack in my living room and attempt to take a couple of whacks at my skull. This kind of scenario can unfold in the space of less than ten seconds, so at this point I'm not thinking about legalities. I agree with what was mentioned in an earlier post, less lethal round backed up by buckshot for sure, if not lethal rounds all the way.

[CSACANNONEER]

OK, the real deal....

Take a low base shell, open the top and remove the shot. Pack it with rock salt and carpet tacks then seal it up with bacon grease.

Don't ask me how I know, it has something to do with Sunkist growers back in the 60's


I still have scars from stealing oranges.

I guess the farmers in Oregon forgot the tacks. 60+ years ago, while my dad was visiting relatives in Oregon, his cousins took him on a watermelon patch raid. According to him, rocksalt can be a very good deterent. Personally, I'll believe my dad and m24armorer over any "test" that shows rocksalt doesn't work. Of course, in todays world, I would NEVER shoot anyone unless, I need to kill them to protect myself or another innocent person. Let their next of kin sue me. It'll be better for me if there is only one version of the truth for a jury to hear.