School me on shotguns

[SGT Loco]

Hey all! I'm looking to make my first shotgun purchase here in the near future, and I was looking for a little starters advice. First, while I have a pretty decent body of experience with rifles and pistols, I'm a shotgun newb. The only real shotgun shooting experience (not counting that bus ride in Kuwait) I have is with my granddads WWI era 1912. While I found it a super fun gun to shoot, it's not yet mine, and I don't think it's the best choice for a starter shotgun anyway, being practically an antique and all...

I intend to keep this new shotgun as primarily a home defense weapon (I live in an apartment, btw), with a side of range toy and possibly amateur competition gun eventually. With that in mind, I was leaning towards a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 (12 guages), since those seem to be the most common basic shotgun out there. I figure they would be a good starter point, and if I want to refine my taste later I'm not out a major investment.

I tried looking at some reviews on both guns, not so much to hear about how great they are, but looking for problems specific to either platform that I should be aware of that may tip my decision one way or the other. Unfortunately, the plethora of reviews out there and all the different variants makes this search difficult. So here I am, Calguns, the repository of all knowledge.

Are these weapons a good choice for my needs? Is there anything for me to be concerned about that's specific to either platform? What variant (there's clearly a lot) is best suited for my basic needs? What's the common thinking on HD ammo with these guys?

If you guys need any more information to provide good advice, I'm happy to answer questions

[NRai2001]

I m not too experienced with shotguns either but another question would be pump vs semiauto? Which is better for HD and which is better for a beginner?

[SGT Loco]

I m not too experienced with shotguns either but another question would be pump vs semiauto? Which is better for HD and which is better for a beginner?

I had only been considering pump, since that is what my limited experience is with, but it is a very valid question. Thanks!

My only real concern would be price. Are semi auto's comparable price wise to pumps?

[burr2of4]

both are good guns, but i would choose the mosberg. mostly because if the ejector breaks on the 870 you have to send it away to get fixed. the mosberg ejector can be changed at home.

[border.bandito]

mossberg 500.
like burr2of4 said, the mosseberg is easier to work on yourself...and in my opinion its more reliable than the 870.
i have more rounds through mine than i can count...and it still shoots like it did day one.
i use mine for HD with the 18" barrel, and toss the longer barrel on for shooting skeet and hunting.

i would never sell my Mossberg...if that means anything to you.

[Jbaker8390]

mossberg 500.
like burr2of4 said, the mosseberg is easier to work on yourself...and in my opinion its more reliable than the 870.
i have more rounds through mine than i can count...and it still shoots like it did day one.
i use mine for HD with the 18" barrel, and toss the longer barrel on for shooting skeet and hunting.

i would never sell my Mossberg...if that means anything to you.

It's a bias, Either brand is fine, one is not more reliable than the other. What I would consider is what safety you like better, the top mounted safety or the trigger safety on the remington 870. You can't or compare say an 870 wing-master is less reliable than a mossberg 500, I'd say a 590 and a 870 express are comparable. The Remington 870 is a quality steel Receiver Pump Action Shotgun utilizing a double rail system Pump Action which has a better build quality. The Mossberg has an alluminum alloy frame, which is why the 500 is cheaper. Even i'm biased, I mean just look which company i'm swaying towards; I have a Remington 870 and i even think the Mossberg 500 is still a great value. It's like comparing Honda/Toyota. BOTH Have great track records, I work with Law enforcement here in LA county and they use the Remington 870's


All in all i'd personally check both of the guns out personally. They're both great buys, both American, you won't be disappointed.

[alfred1222]

I like my 870, for what you get it's worth every penny

[WDE91]

basic pump gun with an 18" cylinder bore barrel with low recoil 00buck for the house

Then pick up a 28" or long barrel for clays and birds

1 gun will fill 2 roles with a barrel change

[SGT Loco]

basic pump gun with an 18" cylinder bore barrel with low recoil 00buck for the house

Then pick up a 28" or long barrel for clays and birds

1 gun will fill 2 roles with a barrel change

Since I live in an apartment, is that something I'm going to have to worry about if I should ever have to fire inside? What the penetration like compared to rifle/pistol rounds?

The setup sounds good. I don't need anything beyond basic really. I'm not much of a hunter anymore, but I'm mildly interested in skeet shooting (The President does it)... Thanks!

both are good guns, but i would choose the mosberg. mostly because if the ejector breaks on the 870 you have to send it away to get fixed. the mosberg ejector can be changed at home.

Is the ejector breaking a common problem on the 870?


Also, how do the two compare when it comes down to basic disassembly/cleaning?

[GringoBandito6136]

Since I live in an apartment, is that something I'm going to have to worry about if I should ever have to fire inside? What the penetration like compared to rifle/pistol rounds?

In all actuality your biggest liability is being able to hit what you shoot at should the criteria for taking a shot be met. If you are concerned with over penetration don't be afraid to load up with some lighter shot. At close range even bird shot is devastating. Consider loading up with something in-between buck and bird shot. And go with the pump action. You'll tend to fire only as many times as you really need to, and ammo conservation is important these days

Your second biggest liability is being able to keep your wits about you immediately after the shooting. The longest part of your day happens after the last shot is fired. Be prepared to keep your composure as the investigative process takes its course. Your experience may be positive, and it may not be positive. But if you stick to the following guidelines you should have a fluid transition from immediate threat and shots fired, to 911, to leo arrival, to putting pen to paper about what you did and why:

Call it in when its safe to do so. Be forth-coming to the dispatcher, but remember that you're being recorded while on the phone. Say nothing to first responders other than "I am the shooter, there is my shotgun on the couch over there, here are my hands over my head so you don't feel threatened by me, yes sir you can handcuff me if you feel the need to, I fired x-many rounds from this position here to where the bad guy was over there, there are no known outstanding suspects (or if there are - describe them), and at this time request that an attorney be provided to you prior to answering any questions about WHY you did what you did. Miranda or no Miranda, in-custody or not in cuffs - it is your right to have council at your side before explaining why you took someone's life or seriously wounded them. If they think you're holding back because the situation doesn't smell right, be prepared for some simple investigative tactics and reasoning. Stick to your guns about having council with you before stating why you shot. Even police officers consult council prior to explaining why they shot. Telling the truth in a focused and pointed manner is every bit as important as making your shots count during the shooting incident.

- Gringo

[OldBlueMan]

In all actuality your biggest liability is being able to hit what you shoot at should the criteria for taking a shot be met. If you are concerned with over penetration don't be afraid to load up with some lighter shot. At close range even bird shot is devastating. Consider loading up with something in-between buck and bird shot. And go with the pump action. You'll tend to fire only as many times as you really need to, and ammo conservation is important these days

Your second biggest liability is being able to keep your wits about you immediately after the shooting. The longest part of your day happens after the last shot is fired. Be prepared to keep your composure as the investigative process takes its course. Your experience may be positive, and it may not be positive. But if you stick to the following guidelines you should have a fluid transition from immediate threat and shots fired, to 911, to leo arrival, to putting pen to paper about what you did and why:

Call it in when its safe to do so. Be forth-coming to the dispatcher, but remember that you're being recorded while on the phone. Say nothing to first responders other than "I am the shooter, there is my shotgun on the couch over there, here are my hands over my head so you don't feel threatened by me, yes sir you can handcuff me if you feel the need to, I fired x-many rounds from this position here to where the bad guy was over there, there are no known outstanding suspects (or if there are - describe them), and at this time request that an attorney be provided to you prior to answering any questions about WHY you did what you did. Miranda or no Miranda, in-custody or not in cuffs - it is your right to have council at your side before explaining why you took someone's life or seriously wounded them. If they think you're holding back because the situation doesn't smell right, be prepared for some simple investigative tactics and reasoning. Stick to your guns about having council with you before stating why you shot. Even police officers consult council prior to explaining why they shot. Telling the truth in a focused and pointed manner is every bit as important as making your shots count during the shooting incident.

Great advice. I've received similar advice from someone locally, and he added a couple other things. When you call 911 to report the incident, request police and an ambulance. If the situation ever goes to trial, you want to be able to demonstrate that you only wanted to stop the threat and were not deliberately trying to kill the intruder, so you don't get portrayed as some crazed vigilante out for justice who watched one-too-many Dirty Harry movies.

[-hanko]

If you are concerned with over penetration don't be afraid to load up with some lighter shot. At close range even bird shot is devastating. Consider loading up with something in-between buck and bird shot.

- Gringo

OP needs good training asap.

The bird shot thing is FOS, at the very least. Might get someone killed by a bad guy at the very worst.

Name a reputable shotgun trainer who recommends birshot.

Penetration is sadly lacking.

OP, go back about 5 pages on this forum, read forward. You'll note once every week or 2 someone posts the bird shot thing and gets quickly owned. Bird shot is designed for things who don't wear clothes with skin like a turkey or chicken. It is NOT designed for self-defense unless birds are attacking.

Do your own research before you put your and maybe your family's life in jeopardy.

hth

-hanko

[SGT Loco]

Thanks for the info. I'm already pretty well prepared for a HD situation, and I take what precautions I can. I also have no doubt as to my ability to remain composed- if somebody breaks in, it wouldn't be my first life or death situation. I just wanted to add a shotgun to my list of options, and I really know relatively little about them at this point, beyond basic manipulation. I appreciate the help

FYI, I went ahead and jailed a Mossberg 500 8-shot security pump today. I handled it at the store and liked it, plus it was on sale. I was also slightly swayed by the "easier to work on" bit, as I would much rather take care of my guns myself. All of the local shops have Remingtons back ordered for the next 4-6 weeks too, which would cause me a hassle if I end up moving in that time frame like I plan. Initial feelings; I'm happy with my purchase

Downside is, the pick-up date is Valentines day. I have to figure out how to weasel in the pick-up with the female counterpart

OP, go back about 5 pages on this forum, read forward. You'll note once every week or 2 someone posts the bird shot thing and gets quickly owned. Bird shot is designed for things who don't wear clothes with skin like a turkey or chicken. It is NOT designed for self-defense unless birds are attacking.

For the record, I don't like the bird shot idea, after having fired birdshot in the past. My question was in regards to penetration of the low recoil buck-shot. I don't intend to miss, but I'm not egotistical enough to think that I can't miss.

[Ferrum]

I like the 870's.. Bought my first 870 as a slug gun and then bought barrels as my interests changed.

For home defense I purchased a Weatherby PA459. Gotta say that I really like it!

[hammer74]

great choice.

i personally like my mossberg 500. it is versatile and u can use for HD as well as for sport/clay with easy barrel change, easy to clean and pretty reliable - no jams, no issues using the gun at all. shot over 200 round in 1 day and works like a charm.