MKA 1919 VS Saiga 12

[red ryder 47]

Thx for all the replies, big help. I went with s12. I have only shot 2 3/4 slug so far, ran like a beast I love it! This sat I will try some bird shot to see how it runs.

[mif_slim]

I saw a MKA1919 for sale, went to pick up my wife from work and went right back to pick up the MKA1919....GONE!! So mad, still mad!! That was 2 days right after the Sandyhook shooting......now I cant find them anywhere!

[56Chevy]

Thx for all the replies, big help. I went with s12. I have only shot 2 3/4 slug so far, ran like a beast I love it! This sat I will try some bird shot to see how it runs.

That's good news. Have fun!

[56Chevy]

I saw a MKA1919 for sale, went to pick up my wife from work and went right back to pick up the MKA1919....GONE!! So mad, still mad!! That was 2 days right after the Sandyhook shooting......now I cant find them anywhere!

Maybe one of the gun novices thought it was a Bushmaster and just had to have it!

[WiKDMoNKY]

My vote is for the 930 SPX with rifle stock. You can swap out the stock for a pistol grip style for less than converting a S12. Best part is it is not on any ban lists (yet) and is 7+1 (8+1 if ghost loaded) out of the box and 10/11+1 with a mag tube extension. I just ordered a 28" barrel for under $200 shipped, so it will be my all around shotgun for way less than a converted S12.

Oh ya, no need to try and find mags and its made in USA!!!




Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

[huntingsocal]

FYI Mike at http://armsofamerica.com/ is getting some 1919 in stock soon, not sure what the price will be.

Only "catch" is that they have a "zombie slayer" paint job on them that could be considered a.) cool or b.) cheesy depending on your taste.

[mif_slim]

Maybe one of the gun novices thought it was a Bushmaster and just had to have it!

Yeah but a Bushmaster is Evil!!

[sffred]

I love my Saiga12, eats everything! Imho don't get any adjustable gas block. I've had the 5 position one and it was too finnicky to mess with. Keep the original 2 setting gas block, and if you forget which setting to put it in, it has a FTE. The only time I've had FTF's is with the factory saiga mags with bird shot. I've put over 2k in birdshot and around 1k of slugs and OObuck since and never had any more problems. I only run agp gen2 10rd mags now. No more saiga 8 rd. Or surefire mags. A plus is if you shoot a lot of clay (like me) get a polychoke (adjustable dram pattern and has a slug setting you can shoot 100yards no drop!) and a AK low fsb (file down the front bead sight on the gas block so you have a longer sight radius). Us shotgunners love low sights and this makes it easies hitting clay pigeons! Here's mine!

[sffred]

I would have gotten a vepr12 but they weren't out when I got my saiga 12. My buddy got a vepr12 and he loves it ! But he has FTF every now and then. Apparently since its a slip in mag in a magwell (not like a saiga rock n lock) he has problems feeding, and mags are hard to come by. I do admit his has a removable gas tube,hinged dust cover, and an adjustable rear sight leaf. But I'm happy I got my saiga12.

[56Chevy]

Yeah but a Bushmaster is Evil!!

I forgot.

[c5dream]

I have two VEPR 12's
One will remain stock and the other has some "Tacti-Cool" goodies.
I have other shotguns but nothing in the mag-style semi-automatic family.
This is my first and I absolutely love it. Last Round Bolt Hold Open is great.
As mentioned the CA Bullet Button sucks but what can you do?
I highly recommend the rifle if you can get your hands on one!
It's accurate with iron sights and I've only shot outdoor once on a 50 yard line but couldn't miss. Inside at 25 yards with 00 Buck it leaves a 1.5" hole in each head of a quad silhouette target with ease.
My motto relative to purchasing one mimics the NIKE Corp.'s motto "Just Do It!"

[penguinofsleep]

only thing i wish my S12 had is a bolt hold open after the last shot, but i still have the manual bolt hold open on mine. If anyone knows where I can get one, please PM or post here. anyways, what advantages do the agp mags offer over the surefires? also, can i use my surefire saiga mags (8's and 10's) in a vepr?

would love a vepr 12 in the future when things calm down (hopefully they will). basically seem like what a saiga 12 should have been the 1st time around construction-wise (although at a fraction of the price, i guess we can't complain too much).

Other than that, w/ the following my s12 works almost 100% once i dial in the right gas setting for that particular ammo: polished bolt and rails, lighter recoil spring, adjustable gas puck, bigger gas ports & properly aligned gas block, and reshaped tapco g2 trigger/hammer. if its over gassed, it will cycle too fast and re-chamber the empty shell (not to mention beat the frame up). under gassed and it won't fully eject the shells. have only had 1 ftf after i got the gas settings dialed in - the magazine didn't feed the shell when it was still new. i have never been able to reproduce this issue, even when i intentionally tried to jam the magazine up.
also, HK sights (full size like on an mp5, not the mini ones you see people using as back up sights on an ar) on an S12 are awesome.

[penguinofsleep]

TZL:

aside from the easier to use bullet button and lighter weight, do you see anything about the design of the 1919 as inherently superior to a saiga or vepr 12? i've played around with the 1919 before but didn't get to shoot it (i and the other guy were both out of shells). the only thing i could maybe imagine is it might be easier to insert the 1919 magazines - as you probably know, the s12 magazines can be a little tricky to insert properly, especially if you are running/moving around or under stress.

it felt like a heavier ar but a little less front heavy than my s12 when i played around with it, but in a shotgun i don't see the ar or ak design being superior to most existing designs other than allowing for magazine fed operation.

[56Chevy]

Atlantic Firearms sent me an e-mail yesterday, while I was at work, to say that the MKA 1919 was in stock for $699. I was able to add it to my cart, but when I got to the CC information somebody needed my help. When I went back it was gone from my cart. Imagine people making me work for my money while I'm trying to waste money!

[TZL]

Penguinofsleep

1) The magazine insert is key on the Akdal, I guess the VEPR is more straight insert, but compared to a standard Saiga12, the Akdal 1919 is much easier (straight AR type)

I have one saiga 12 that I keep in another state with a R&R custom magwell which allows straight inserts, but the mags are modified Surefires that won't work in a normal S12 now.

I find standard S12 mags super hard to get in on a closed bolt and full mag

2) Action, just like an AR vs AK, I feel that the action of the Akdal is smoother than a S12. Partly the action itself (since the Akdal gas parts are under the barrel its not directly inline, but less mass moving around than a Saiga) but also the position of the stock, if you have an aftermarket stock setup, you can position it vertically to be inline with the barrel

3) Controls are AR15 like as far as safety and bolt release. Charging is like an AK as its on the bolt

4) Minor, but the Akdal has last round hold open, just like an AR...easier for inserting a full mag

5) Akdal is still nose heavy, just a bit less so than a Saiga 12

(I can't compare with VEPR12 as I don't have one yet, on order, but no direct experience with a VEPR12...I assume its like a tuned Saiga with magwell)

Many cons to the Akdal

Take down is stupid, EXTREMELY stupid, its not like an AR15 where you push two pins.

You have to unscrew the gas system from the front, then remove all the gas system crap like springs and bushings, then remove the charging handle and barrel

Then you have to remove the bolt at the rear, if you are running an OEM stock, that mean removing the butt pad and loosening an allen key and pushing the upper half forward gently to separate the upper and lower

If you have an aftermarket stock setup like I do, you have to remove the stock, then remove the AR stock adapter, then remove the allen key and separate the halves.

You also have to take extreme care not to f'up the feed lips which are polymer that are molded in the lower but stick up into the upper. Firebird is working on some billet lowers which will help with this...but just plain stupid design.

Once you separated the upper and lower, then you can remove the bolt etc....stupid, stupid, stupid...you basically have to take apart the whole gun to do anything

TZL:

aside from the easier to use bullet button and lighter weight, do you see anything about the design of the 1919 as inherently superior to a saiga or vepr 12? i've played around with the 1919 before but didn't get to shoot it (i and the other guy were both out of shells). the only thing i could maybe imagine is it might be easier to insert the 1919 magazines - as you probably know, the s12 magazines can be a little tricky to insert properly, especially if you are running/moving around or under stress.

it felt like a heavier ar but a little less front heavy than my s12 when i played around with it, but in a shotgun i don't see the ar or ak design being superior to most existing designs other than allowing for magazine fed operation.