MKA 1919 VS Saiga 12

[red ryder 47]

Want to see some opinions on this subject. Actual people who have shot these guns.

[ChrisBrooklyn]

saiga 12 is a great gun, alot of fun to shoot and it just feeeeeds all day, never had a problem with it

[jrock]

Vs. Vepr

Vepr wins. All the upgrades an s12 needs to shoot various loads, right out of the box.

[sdkelly85]

+1 Vepr 12. I would like to eventually buy a MKA1919, but I hear the internals are really complicated. It being newer and not extremely popular would make it hard to find someone who would know how to work on it.

[supermario]

I only own a Saiga 12 But I LOVE it. Its a fast shooter and 100% reliable with me. I shoot mainly federal Birdshot and it shoots perfect. Also not much recoil. I say get a Saiga 12.

If you don't like it, you can sell quickly.

[red ryder 47]

Thanks for the replies. Is there no one that put sum rounds through a 1919?

[Caseless]

Thanks for the replies. Is there no one that put sum rounds through a 1919?

Here you go. Review plus eye candy.

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/78354-anyone-shoot-the-mka-1919-in-major-matches-recently/

I wasn't on his squad at Ironman. But the overall feedback I got from competition shooters is that it is still a work-in-progress. Beta-test mode.

The Saiga 12, on the other hand, is like a Remington 870 among magazine fed self-loading shotguns. Check out the Tromix website.

[TZL]

I might be one of the few people to own both the S12 and Akdal MKA1919 on Calguns

I have 4 Saiga 12s (three converted and 1 stock) and 2 Akdal 1919s (one converted and one stock)

I also am looking to get 2-3 VEPR 12s (I have them on back order)

See one of each here, S12 on the left and 1919 on the right

[TZL]

Both guns (S12 and 1919) take alot of work to make them run well for a 3-gun setup, but here are my observations

S12s run very good out of the box with slugs/buck....but extremely poorly with target loads. If you want to run target loads for 3-gun etc, you have to do ALOT of work which includes 1) gas puck or adjustable auto-plug (auto plus is OK, not perfect), 2) lighter recoil springs 3) polished bolt 4) making sure your gas ports are perfect

The problem is when your S12 is running target loads perfectly, its overgassed for bucks/slugs/3"....which is why i run an adjustable gas plug, which i think is an OK solution, but doesn't have the same "run whatever you throw at it" capability like a Beretta A400, Remington VersaMax, Benelli M4

The Akdal is the same way, its good on buck/slugs/3" out of the box, but takes some work to get to cycle target loads reliably. The one I converted has the works, Firebird forearm with left side charging, Firebird hammer, Tromix trigger, Tromix AR stock adapter, Tromix pistol grip adapter, Firebird charging handle, muzzle brake, Magpul MOE stock (pinned), Ergo grip, EO Tech 512

The truth is that both are good for EITHER target loads or heavy loads, but can't readily be adjusted to shoot both reliably

The two key PROS / advantages of the Akdal are

+1) Bullet Button / magwell - S12 and all AK bullet button are a PITA in CA...the Akdal is AR style push button BB so loads easier to use. I have a S12 fitted with the R&R magwell (which is AR style) but it requires the mags be modified to fit and it cost $300 so it eats up any price advantage

+2) weight - its 1-2 lbs lighter than the Saiga 12 (if you run a stock or smooth forearm on the Akdal

The major CON on the Akdal is:

-1) Work, you have to cut the one piece lower to install the stock and grip, this is NOT for novices and if you f-up you are out an akdal 1919 as you can't buy separate lowers just yet (firebird is working on it)

-2) Much less parts availability / rarer

[TZL]

In CA the VEPR has the same problem as any other S12, the bullet button sucks and is hard to actuate

But if you don't mind that, i think it has lots of potential, its basically a pre-mod'd Saiga 12

Just remember to be 922R compliant, so i'm guessing you'll still need to swap out alot of parts to run 10 rounders

(I have VERPs on backorder)

Vs. Vepr

Vepr wins. All the upgrades an s12 needs to shoot various loads, right out of the box.

[Caseless]

The truth is that both are good for EITHER target loads or heavy loads, but can't readily be adjusted to shoot both reliably

I used to think that way, then a shotgun guru commented here on the forum that I should match the ammo to the gun, not the other way around.

For example, on any Saiga 12 equipped with an aftermarket 5/6 setting gas valve, first I find a setting that reliably cycles 1 1/8 oz birdshot, then find a non-full power slug, or buckshot loading with similar velocity. Chances are you can use the same setting for low recoil 00 buck, medium velocity slug, and birdshot. Assuming no QC problem from the factory.

or just order a VEPR. My guess is that during the final test firing QC phase at the factory, the S12 is test-fired with full power 00 Buck only, while the VEPR is test fired with both buckshot and birdshot.

[TZL]

I have a S12 with an autoplug that WILL cycle target loads and low recoil buck/slug AND 3" buck/slug, however I have yet to get it to run 100% with a mixed mag

I "feel" like that the lighter return spring probably excessively beats up the receiver with 3" loads, where as the heavier return spring is fine with the 3" but doesn't reliably cycle the #8 target loads....no proof of this as that S12 doesn't seem to show excessive wear on the back of the receiver, only based on my felt recoil

The Akdal MKA1919 doesn't allow the same sort of on the fly gas adjustment (no valve, so you have to tune with shims/springs)

Of course we don't know if VEPR12s are perfect either, I've read positive initial feedback, but they've only been around for a couple months... we'll have to see once they get alot more traction

I'm looking forward to my VEPR12

I used to think that way, then a shotgun guru commented here on the forum that I should match the ammo to the gun, not the other way around.

For example, on any Saiga 12 equipped with an aftermarket 5/6 setting gas valve, first I find a setting that reliably cycles 1 1/8 oz birdshot, then find a non-full power slug, or buckshot loading with similar velocity. Chances are you can use the same setting for low recoil 00 buck, medium velocity slug, and birdshot. Assuming no QC problem from the factory.

or just order a VEPR. My guess is that during the final test firing QC phase at the factory, the S12 is test-fired with full power 00 Buck only, while the VEPR is test fired with both buckshot and birdshot.

[Sam .223]

my S12 runs all day and eats whateveer i feed it, provided i have the gas setting on the correct setting for the ammo used, that said i did a few things to it to make it run like this, i polished the bolt and drilled the gas ports to the correct size as they were to small from the factory. i probably could've just drilled the gas ports and it would've run fine but i did the bolt since i had it out. all in all not a lot of work and not a lot of money spent, i didn't need recoil spring or gas puck or regulator mods, if the gas ports are correct you wouldn't need those either. the auto plug regulator is mainly an over gased fixer, but it would be a nice add on to keep from haveing to adjust from setting 1 or 2 for the different shot used. i love my S12 and it gets alot of unneeded attention when i take it out.

[stix213]

I've never shot a 1919, but I do love my Saiga 12.

I did though have to do some work on the gas ports with a drill press to get it to run correctly though. Mine was from that batch a few years back that shipped with only two small gas ports instead of the normal 3 or 4, and my 2 were partly obstructed on top of that.

After I did the work to it, it runs great with all loads, and shoots very fast as long as you don't let it push you back (the gun is notorious for jamming if you let it push you around, but never jams if you show it who's boss).

[56Chevy]

If the OP can find a 1919 at a pre-panic price I will buy it and test it against my Saiga 12. He can even help with the testing.