saiga 12 shotgun question

[bobomb]

assume you have a saiga 12 that has been legally converted to use the pistol grip and ak buttstock it has a fixed 10 round magazine

would removing the buttstock and just firing it with the pistol grip in any way be illegal?

the resulting gun has an over all length of 31 inches and has a 20 inch barrel

i read the shotgun flowchart and it seems to be ok even if it was only 26 oal

[KracknCorn]

Shotguns don't have a 10rd limit. You do need a bullet button on if it is not tube fed. You just can't have a collapsible stock and pistol grip together on a semi auto shotgun. Yes you can remove the stock and shoot it without one, just as long as the oal is 26inchs.

[bobomb]

i figured as much despite being utterly useless there is no law against it

i was having a discussion with someone and they were so full of fud but how do you convince someone there is no law against it especially when they don't have any references to laws that make it illegal

i mean i cant prove that a law doesn't exist

he might have well said smurfs exist and make me prove they don't


saigas do have a defacto 10 round limit as no greater capacity magazine exised prior to 2000 other than the other inventive ideas to receive a large capacity magazine legally after that date that in my opinion wont withstand strict scrutiny (aka lucy you got some splainin to do)

[mrkam]

Shotguns don't have a 10rd limit.

False. Even tube-fed shotguns have a ten round limit, provided you are planning on adding the extension now.

OP, it is likely legal, but there might be some technicalities with it's designation. When it doesn't have a stock and isn't meant to be fired from the shoulder, it isn't a shotgun in the state's eyes, which is why on the DROS a pistol grip only Mossberg is in the category of "other." At least that's how I think it works. This is all off of the top of my head. I'd look into the laws regarding a smooth bore "other" weapon, that's semi-auto and all that business.

[bobomb]

False. Even tube-fed shotguns have a ten round limit, provided you are planning on adding the extension now.

OP, it is likely legal, but there might be some technicalities with it's designation. When it doesn't have a stock and isn't meant to be fired from the shoulder, it isn't a shotgun in the state's eyes, which is why on the DROS a pistol grip only Mossberg is in the category of "other." At least that's how I think it works. This is all off of the top of my head. I'd look into the laws regarding a smooth bore "other" weapon, that's semi-auto and all that business.

well like i said it had a buttstock and the buttstock is being removed so it doesn't become an other

a rifle or shotgun can't become an "other",an other must come from the factory without buttstock and every "saiga" in america came with a buttstock*



* some people call every ak shotgun a saiga despite what the receiver markings are

[hyperion.excal]

i would love to see some saiga 12 porn anyone wanna fulfill my fantasy??

[TZL]

The other question is why? Either get yourself an AOW s12 mini or keep the stock on it

Can't imagine it would be fun with no stock and a huge barrel

[KracknCorn]

False. Even tube-fed shotguns have a ten round limit, provided you are planning on adding the extension now.

OP, it is likely legal, but there might be some technicalities with it's designation. When it doesn't have a stock and isn't meant to be fired from the shoulder, it isn't a shotgun in the state's eyes, which is why on the DROS a pistol grip only Mossberg is in the category of "other." At least that's how I think it works. This is all off of the top of my head. I'd look into the laws regarding a smooth bore "other" weapon, that's semi-auto and all that business.

False, if you owned a 10+ tube before 2000, you can put it on there. There is no 10rd limit on semi-auto shotguns. The 10rd limit is for "centerfire rifles". Look below and you will see no mention of round limit.

False, a Saiga 12 that was classified as a shotgun is always a shotgun. It needs to have a pistol grip only "when it was made" to be an AOW or pay a $200 tax stamp to make it an AOW.

12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
Rifle/Pistol sections deleted.
(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.
(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

[atakacorp]

i would love to see some saiga 12 porn anyone wanna fulfill my fantasy??

Here ya go,man

[GettoPhilosopher]

KISS, light, and reliable.

[mrkam]

False, if you owned a 10+ tube before 2000, you can put it on there. There is no 10rd limit on semi-auto shotguns. The 10rd limit is for "centerfire rifles". Look below and you will see no mention of round limit.

Penal Code 12020
(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.
(c)(25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=343630

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=389332

False, a Saiga 12 that was classified as a shotgun is always a shotgun. It needs to have a pistol grip only "when it was made" to be an AOW or pay a $200 tax stamp to make it an AOW.

well like i said it had a buttstock and the buttstock is being removed so it doesn't become an other

a rifle or shotgun can't become an "other",an other must come from the factory without buttstock and every "saiga" in america came with a buttstock*

I wasn't sure about that one, but I was just throwing it out there for a potential rough zone with the law. Yeah, you both were right, just forgot about the originally being made with pistol grip only part.

[chaseface]

Penal Code 12020
(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.
(c)(25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

Nowhere in what you just posted does it say that a shotgun can't have a magazine over ten rounds. How you get the magazine is another issue. Maybe you found it. If you did find a 20 round drum mag theres nothing illegal about using it, no matter when it was manufactured. Even buying one from someone else in California is legal. It's illegal for them to sell it but nothing illegal about you buying one.

About the buttstock... yeah you can take it off but that rear tang would be pretty precarious sticking out there

[mrkam]

Nowhere in what you just posted does it say that a shotgun can't have a magazine over ten rounds.

Didn't mean to imply that. That's true. However, coming into possession of that shotgun is the problem, like you said. The Calguns consensus is that putting a tube extension on that makes the capacity more than 10 counts as assembling it. It was a little off topic.

[chaseface]

Didn't mean to imply that. That's true. However, coming into possession of that shotgun is the problem, like you said. The Calguns consensus is that putting a tube extension on that makes the capacity more than 10 counts as assembling it. It was a little off topic.

I get what your saying now

[hyperion.excal]

Here ya go,man

lovely zombie killer. And did you slug that hog? pretty bad *** tyvm

KISS, light, and reliable.

i love the stock, i wish to own a saiga 12 one day its already on my top list for shotgun. thanks