legal question

[Shrubmaster]

At what point does a rifled 12 gauge shotgun become a DD?
Would it just depend on what ammo you use?

[-hanko]

It would depend more on barrel length and overall length. A rifled sg barrel is there for slugs, but it's not illegal to shoot shot through it.

Guess I don't understand the DD part.

-hanko

[BigDogatPlay]

At what point does a rifled 12 gauge shotgun become a DD?

What circumstances do you think would make it a DD? Might be easier to discuss from that perspective.

[ke6guj]

What circumstances do you think would make it a DD? Might be easier to discuss from that perspective.

well, we know that a rifled bore 12ga pistol is considered a DD since it has a rifled bore over .50" and does not qualify for the sporting purposes exemption.

IIRC, With rifled-bore shotguns, there has been "some" greyness regarding DD in the past.

[Shrubmaster]

It would depend more on barrel length and overall length. A rifled sg barrel is there for slugs, but it's not illegal to shoot shot through it.

Guess I don't understand the DD part.

-hanko

In my case, both BL and OAL are well over legal limits.

[Shrubmaster]

well, we know that a rifled bore 12ga pistol is considered a DD since it has a rifled bore over .50" and does not qualify for the sporting purposes exemption.

IIRC, With rifled-bore shotguns, there has been "some" greyness regarding DD in the past.

So its kosher if I shoot non rifled slugs bigger than .50 through my shotgun because of the sporting purposes exemption?

[BigDogatPlay]

well, we know that a rifled bore 12ga pistol is considered a DD since it has a rifled bore over .50" and does not qualify for the sporting purposes exemption.

Since the OP didn't post his inquiry was concerning an AOW, I assumed that he was talking about an above minimum shotgun. You're quite right on the above.

IIRC, With rifled-bore shotguns, there has been "some" greyness regarding DD in the past.

New one on me. Had not heard of any issues, but would be interested to know more. I'm not aware of a specific California statute that would declare a shotgun (not SBS or AOW) as a DD by means of switching to a rifled barrel. If someone has a cite it would be great to see it.

Assuming that the gun is above minimum lengths, you can buy rifled barrels on line or from an LGS that are designed to accurately shoot sabot slugs.

[Shrubmaster]

Since the OP didn't post his inquiry was concerning an AOW, I assumed that he was talking about an above minimum shotgun. You're quite right on the above.



New one on me. Had not heard of any issues, but would be interested to know more. I'm not aware of a specific California statute that would declare a shotgun (not SBS or AOW) as a DD by means of switching to a rifled barrel. If someone has a cite it would be great to see it.

Assuming that the gun is above minimum lengths, you can buy rifled barrels on line or from an LGS that are designed to accurately shoot sabot slugs.

I'm shooting sabot slugs right now, but I'm looking at some"hubel" style slugs that are not saboted and well beyond .50.

[ke6guj]

Since the OP didn't post his inquiry was concerning an AOW, I assumed that he was talking about an above minimum shotgun. You're quite right on the above.

I was using it more as an example.

New one on me. Had not heard of any issues, but would be interested to know more. I'm not aware of a specific California statute that would declare a shotgun (not SBS or AOW) as a DD by means of switching to a rifled barrel. If someone has a cite it would be great to see it.

Assuming that the gun is above minimum lengths, you can buy rifled barrels on line or from an LGS that are designed to accurately shoot sabot slugs.

this did come up in one of the "circuit judge" legality conversations. the .45LC/410 Circuit Judge is felt to be legal because it is a rifle, and not a shotgun, due to the rifled barrel. If that is the case, why can't I put a rifled barrel on a Saiga-12 and say that it is now a rifle? With a featureless S-12, I'd be able to run detachable magazines in it wihout violating the shotgun AW regs, since it isn't a shotgun anymore. But, if it isnt' a shotgun anymore, does it still have a DD exemption like a normal shotgun does? That is what I meant about there being some greyness.

[BigDogatPlay]

I was using it more as an example.


this did come up in one of the "circuit judge" legality conversations. the .45LC/410 Circuit Judge is felt to be legal because it is a rifle, and not a shotgun, due to the rifled barrel. If that is the case, why can't I put a rifled barrel on a Saiga-12 and say that it is now a rifle? With a featureless S-12, I'd be able to run detachable magazines in it wihout violating the shotgun AW regs, since it isn't a shotgun anymore. But, if it isnt' a shotgun anymore, does it still have a DD exemption like a normal shotgun does? That is what I meant about there being some greyness.

I see where you're going with this and your point makes some sense. However, if you changed out the smooth bore 12 gauge barrel on a Saiga with a rifled 12 gauge barrel that still shoots 12 gauge shotgun shells, I'd think that no different than hanging a rifled deer barrel on an 870. It's still a 12 gauge shotgun.

I think the issue with the Circuit Judge is that it shoots both shotshells and metallic cartridge ammo and that's where the greyness comes in. If someone cooked up a metallic cartridge firing a bullet for a rifled 12 gauge barrel then I think you'd be triggering an issue, and potentially creating a DD. So long as it continues to shoot shotshells, it's simply a shotgun.. rifled barrel or not.

At least that's the way I see it.

[ke6guj]

I see where you're going with this and your point makes some sense. However, if you changed out the smooth bore 12 gauge barrel on a Saiga with a rifled 12 gauge barrel that still shoots 12 gauge shotgun shells, I'd think that no different than hanging a rifled deer barrel on an 870. It's still a 12 gauge shotgun.

I think the issue with the Circuit Judge is that it shoots both shotshells and metallic cartridge ammo and that's where the greyness comes in. If someone cooked up a metallic cartridge firing a bullet for a rifled 12 gauge barrel then I think you'd be triggering an issue, and potentially creating a DD. So long as it continues to shoot shotshells, it's simply a shotgun.. rifled barrel or not.

At least that's the way I see it.

something like this?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=40465

[Shrubmaster]

You guys are right on track as far as my situation goes. Fyi, I'm using brass hulls as well.

[Shrubmaster]

Maybe a pic would help
I'll see what I can do.