Kel Tec Shotgun

[NSR500]

I just called and spoke with someone at Kel-Tec.

Was trying to find out if the shotgun is going to be available in California. She would not give me any information. She said no information will be released until after the SHOT show.

I talked to my gun guy yesterday at his shop and showed him the shot gun and he said of course he couldnt be sure, but he felt by looking at it and the specs that he didnt think it will ever see California.

He compared it to the Judge. Not sure if that is an accurate comparison, but I trust he knows more about this stuff than I do. he has been in the business for a long time.

I wouldnt be suprised if we never see it. some of Kel-Tecs really cool stuff you cant get here.

Like their RFB. I would LOVE to have that rifle. But not legal in California.

And on Kel-Tec's web site they even compare the shotgun to the RFB.

Quote:

"The size, shape and design are similar to the currently available Kel-Tec RFB rifle, but the KSG ejects downward, instead of forward"


So my assumption between what my gun guy says, knowing Kel-Tec's RFB is not legal in California and they make a pretty clear comparison between the shotgun and the RFB.

And on top of all that, everyone here has been going back and forth about the legality of the 14 round capacity.

So from all the pieces I am putting together I will be pleasantly surprised if it is available in California, but I am not holding my breath.

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1294097299

-Why pump, and not semi-auto?
This is Kel-Tec's first shotgun, it makes sense to start with a pump first. Most semi-auto designs started as pumps. A pump is also legal in California and many other states that have gun bans.

[KaLiFORNIA]

ummm, im in

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/Ya...num=1294097299

Ive been needing a shotgun, if its in the 600-800$ range that is. my su16 hasnt had any problems. If it sucks... ill wait for the supply to dry up and the demand to rise....

[FatalKitty]

If the past is any indication, Keltec will only produce a handful of these shotguns to make people think they are going into production, then they'll switch back to making their subcompact handguns. Supply will be limited and prices will be well above the MSRP. Just look at their RFB rifle. KT, as a company, isn't too reliable.

all the more reason to buy one right away

[Turo]

He compared it to the Judge. Not sure if that is an accurate comparison, but I trust he knows more about this stuff than I do. he has been in the business for a long time.

The Judge is illegal in CA because it meet's CA's definition of a Short Barreled Shotgun. The only thing that isn't 100% clear to everybody about this KSG is if the gun is illegal based on the "large-capacity magazine" law. This gun is pump action, so it's exempt from the semi-auto shotgun AW laws, it's got a 18.5" barrel and is greater than 26" OAL so it's exempt from the SBS law.

This shotgun isn't at all comparable to the Judge under CA law. I would suggest not listening to that guy about CA laws because he obviously doesn't understand them.

[Digital_Boy]

He compared it to the Judge. Not sure if that is an accurate comparison, but I trust he knows more about this stuff than I do. he has been in the business for a long time.

He is completely in error about any comparison to the Judge. The Judge is classified as an SBS and an "assault weapon" because of it's length for the former, and it's revolving cylinder for the latter. CA's shotgun related AWB language specifically refers to any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

One can legally own a Judge in CA. You set up a trust in a more gun friendly neighboring state like NV or AZ, and get a tax stamp and register it as a Federal Any Other Weapon (AOW) and CA will honor it. CA won't allow us mere mortals to do that within it's borders. Yet.

The only possible point of contention with the KSG is whether it's having two built in tubular magazines will trigger any kind of CA problems. It does not violate CA's laws on overall length or being semi-auto and having a pistol grip or folding stock (they threw that in for the SPAS-12).

I'd do some research and go back and talk to your preferred FFL (your gun guy) and let him know about it. If he's good, he'll double check it on his own and modify his stance. If he's not so good, he'll be offended that you dare to question his presumed authority, and I'd look for a new dealer. Having an FFL does not confer omniscience, though you wouldn't know it to talk to some of them.

[Dr Rockso]

The Judge is illegal in CA because it meet's CA's definition of a Short Barreled Shotgun.

It's also an AW due to being a shotgun with revolving cylinder (which is why we can't have the Circuit Judge, either)...again, nothing comparable to the KelTec.

[STAGE 2]

Stage2;
Its a shotgun... a pump action gun and the concept is very simple, doesn't take much to create one. If material is your concern... there are many aluminium shotguns out there performing flawlessly. And this animous against "plastic"is unfounded... its not fischer price plastic... its composit that is plenty strong enough to handle what a civilian user will throw at it.

A semi auto rifle isn't rocket science either, but keltec missed the durability boat on those as well. As far as plastic goes, its a legitimate concern for two reasons. First, weight savings on a shotgun isn't necessarily a good thing. Second, because polymer frames work great on some pistols doesn't mean that this transfers over into shotguns. Something with recoil equivalent to that of a 30.06 is a wee bit more demanding than a 9mm or 45.

For myself (and I'm willing to bet a great many here) I'd rather pay an extra couple hundred for something over built. My grandkids grandkids will be shooting my 870P. I don't know that there is any keltec product that can say that.

Granted this product my surprise me, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Mesa Tactical]

A semi auto rifle isn't rocket science either, but keltec missed the durability boat on those as well. As far as plastic goes, its a legitimate concern for two reasons. First, weight savings on a shotgun isn't necessarily a good thing. Second, because polymer frames work great on some pistols doesn't mean that this transfers over into shotguns. Something with recoil equivalent to that of a 30.06 is a wee bit more demanding than a 9mm or 45.

I don't like lightweight shotguns, but someone does. All Benelli semi-autos and all Mossbergs are aluminum. Ditto most of all of the Winchester/FN models. In fact, these days more repeating shotguns seem to be aluminum or plastic than steel.

As for durability of plastic shotguns, I have not heard of any materials-related failures in the Benelli Nova or SuperNova line, but then I haven't been paying that much attention to them either.

Gas-piston semi-auto rifles may not be rocket science, but they are far more complicated in design and development than manual actions, which require not much more than a good locking bolt and reliable magazine feed. Much more goes into getting a semi-auto to work right.

Shotguns require looser tolerances and less precise engineering and manufacturing than rifles. Kel-tec probably should have started with shotguns before tackling carbines (I'm prejudiced, of course), but naturally they were salivating over the relative numbers. Perhaps, smarting from production issues with their latest carbine, they decided to do something simpler with a pump action shotgun design (given that a manual action rifle wouldn't fly). Judging from the responses in this thread, this may prove to have been the best decision they could have made.

[STAGE 2]

As for durability of plastic shotguns, I have not heard of any materials-related failures in the Benelli Nova or SuperNova line, but then I haven't been paying that much attention to them either.

Nor have I, but I'm willing to wager that those type of shotguns usually don't see a steady diet of 00 buck. This shotgun wasn't intended for the skeet range. Its intended use seems to be for HD so its primarily going to see defensive loads.

Gas-piston semi-auto rifles may not be rocket science, but they are far more complicated in design and development than manual actions, which require not much more than a good locking bolt and reliable magazine feed. Much more goes into getting a semi-auto to work right.

Correct. However unlike a semi auto rifle that has a gas system to recycle some of the energy, a pump sends everything to the "frame". If this is mostly plastic fantastic I don't see it being long lasting, regardless of how space age the polymer is.

Judging from the responses in this thread, this may prove to have been the best decision they could have made.

Time will certianly tell, and as I said earlier I love the design. However for the same reason you folks make a fine side saddle carrier out of metal instead of plastic, I'd like to see a defensive weapon overengineered.

[agent.5]

they decided to do something simpler with a pump action shotgun design (given that a manual action rifle wouldn't fly).

Why not? I am very interested in a bolt action RFB. Desert Tactical Arms is selling rifles for $4500 a pop mainly because they are bullpup. Just put a bolt action and a match barrel on a RFB and KT can easily sell it at $2000.

I also think what KT did correctly with the RFB is that it has an excellent trigger, which is the hardest part of making any bullpup. Now, KT can just copy the autocad of the RFB trigger system to everything else.

[Mesa Tactical]

Nor have I, but I'm willing to wager that those type of shotguns usually don't see a steady diet of 00 buck. This shotgun wasn't intended for the skeet range. Its intended use seems to be for HD so its primarily going to see defensive loads.

As with the Benelli SuperNova (all examples of which we are exposed to are tactical models).

Again, I have never heard of materials-related failures with this model. Perhaps there have been, but I have not heard of them.

[thrasherfox]

He is completely in error about any comparison to the Judge. The Judge is classified as an SBS and an "assault weapon" because of it's length for the former, and it's revolving cylinder for the latter. CA's shotgun related AWB language specifically refers to any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

One can legally own a Judge in CA. You set up a trust in a more gun friendly neighboring state like NV or AZ, and get a tax stamp and register it as a Federal Any Other Weapon (AOW) and CA will honor it. CA won't allow us mere mortals to do that within it's borders. Yet.

The only possible point of contention with the KSG is whether it's having two built in tubular magazines will trigger any kind of CA problems. It does not violate CA's laws on overall length or being semi-auto and having a pistol grip or folding stock (they threw that in for the SPAS-12).

I'd do some research and go back and talk to your preferred FFL (your gun guy) and let him know about it. If he's good, he'll double check it on his own and modify his stance. If he's not so good, he'll be offended that you dare to question his presumed authority, and I'd look for a new dealer. Having an FFL does not confer omniscience, though you wouldn't know it to talk to some of them.

No, he is a good guy, he would not be offended. When I showed him the shot gun he flat out stated he didnt know if it would be legal or not. he just said he would "guess" it wouldnt be. but he wasnt sure.

he just tried to make an assessment based on what his past experiences were.

But if there is a way to get one, he can get one for me

[STAGE 2]

As with the Benelli SuperNova (all examples of which we are exposed to are tactical models).

Again, I have never heard of materials-related failures with this model. Perhaps there have been, but I have not heard of them.

True, but benelli has a far better track record for quality than keltec and produce military grade weapons. Its one thing to use aluminum and polymer and build a beefy gun. The problem is that I don't know anyone that would accuse keltec of building beefy weapons.

[Sionadi]

True, but benelli has a far better track record for quality than keltec and produce military grade weapons. Its one thing to use aluminum and polymer and build a beefy gun. The problem is that I don't know anyone that would accuse keltec of building beefy weapons.

All my kel-tecs have been awsome.

[snypr]

Based on my experience with my su16ca, ill take 2 of these sexy boomsticks .