Quality of current production 870

[acorn]

There is nothing for the factory to address because it is not a major issue except for guys that misrepresent it. And you would be the one guilty of that. And yes, the Universal Bulk target loads are the major reason. Yet, I test fire every weapon I built with that exact ammo cause it is the worst out there. So, knowing my weapons work with crap ammo means they work with everything. So I have boxes of this mess around. Yes, it has extraction issues in all weapons but not in mine because I resolve the issue before it can happen.So what you are saying is that you have to fix your 870's before they leave your shop?The fact it has problems in all the other weapons is posted in the thread every time this issue comes up. How could guys have not read this fact, or did they and simply ignore it? They must just ignore what does not fit their point of view or how could they post a statement so incorrect that "No other shotguns have this issue". So why don't you use your vast search skills and post these threads. As for Acorn guy, Wow man, it could just be you are new to these forums and have never read a post about the issue. Looks like I've been here longer then you but I don't care about that but since you do! If that is case then I understand, but making a statement that you can not back up with facts is going to make other statements you make here less then reliable. The fact is you've proved my point with your own words, thanks.I recommend checking out some of these post on this subject. You will see post from multiple people about this in all kinds of 12ga shotguns not just Remington. Prove it, lets see your search skills, let me know how many you find regarding 870's. Use the search function and you will see most all models of weapons that have extraction problems with some ammo or at some time. I am sure you are not insinuating that all those guys are lying. Isn't the search function a great tool when you can use it to find past information or to prove or disprove a point? Yes it is you should practice what you preach.

On these blogs most people have only the experience with the weapons they own. Thousands of the Express models are sold every year. More then any other pump shotgun. Guys get on here and they had an issue. They post it or have read about another guy. Yet, others, like me who have have experience with hundreds of the same model do not have the issue. I build my custom guns on the same weapon Wilson Combat and the others do, the 870 Express. These weapons leave Ilion to distributors and they sit in warehouses for months, then to gun shops where they may sit for months. So they are coated with something to protect the bare steel. Clean it off and you won't have the issue. I tell you how on www.aiptactical.com on the red link "Install and cleaning". Do that then there is not issue with decent ammo. If you have a problem with the cheap stuff it will clear easier.

As for plastic Triggers? What? If you mean the polymer trigger plate assembly then man that is better then the cast metal of the Police or Wingmaster. Polymer is more durable. Go to www.aiptactical.com and click on the "Build your weapon" link. About half way down is a link to a Ruger drop test on their polymer trigger guards and their old cast aluminum trigger guard. Watch that and you will know why I have Polymer in all my personal 870's, all five of them. I don't want cast aluminum. Most all the guys up in the AK ask for the polymer because it is more durable and they have some extreme cold and that cast aluminum does not take those temps well. I stand corrected, and your explanation makes a lot of sense. And yes, the matte finish is horrible, but guys that keep it clean and those in dry areas of the country have no issue with it. Me, have lived and now live in humid areas so I parkerize all my 870's. The Express is not a POS. Ok maybe that was a little harsh. It is the same shotgun as the Wingmaster with a different finish, two small different parts and different stocks. That is all. So you were right that calling it a POS is an opinion, and that is your opinion and we are all entitled to one. I deal in facts and I can prove anything I post with facts from the Remington parts list or the Remington Armorers manual. I understand when a guy has a problem with something he bought. He is P.O'd about it. Some seek solutions and when they find one, they resolve the issues. Other get on these sites and vent or rant and make statement like "you should not have to clean a new weapon". Who said that? I said you shouldn't have to polish your chamber. I am also sure that most readers understand this and assign little value to a rant, however, I don't want a new reader to think that these post are all absolutely correct and fact based.

To the OP go by that 870 Express with confidence. You will also get a $30 rebate if you buy it before December 31st. Don't worry about all this mess as you will have not issues. It will prove worth the money and you will still be shooting it in 50 years if your are around. Good thing is after a thousand rounds or so it gets slicker then eel snot just like any 870.

Appi, just to be clear I appreciate your experience and I do read your post regarding shot guns as I know you are an experienced gun smith. However I have also spoken to professional gunsmiths in my area as well and they all agree that Remington needs to address the issue at the factory and not just ignore it. They also tell me they don't have these issues with other shotguns. I've had two Express and they both had the issue. My Wingmaster does not, my Hawk 982 does not, my Beretta is a semi auto and does not. All of my friends shot guns (many different brands) do not have this issue. That is my limited experience, minimal compared to you, but it is a common experience for many.

[jonni]

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=336774

from the horse's mouth

you have to be in denial to not admit that at least some of the 870 expresses being made today have some quality control issues

[Noah3683]

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=336774

from the horse's mouth

you have to be in denial to not admit that at least some of the 870 expresses being made today have some quality control issues

Unfortunately for your effort, that extractor doesn't come in the express anyway, it's in the wingmaster and 870P Good job doing part of your homework though. My express and 870P have been absolutely flawless. My Mossberg on the other hand had quite a few issues such as a broken trigger housing, then the slide release broke requiring the replacement of the trigger housing again. Oh and of course there's the cheap plastic safety that broke. Convenient that Mossberg fanboys will always neglect to mention these issues though. The polishing is an easy fix, but I haven't even needed to do it. As far as the slide release breaking on the Mossy, well it happened to 2 other people I know so it's not a fluke. Wait make that 3. I sold a trigger group to a fellow member that had it happen to his dad's gun while he was borrowing it.

[ilikeguns]

Unfortunately for your effort, that extractor doesn't come in the express anyway, it's in the wingmaster and 870P Good job doing part of your homework though. My express and 870P have been absolutely flawless. My Mossberg on the other hand had quite a few issues such as a broken trigger housing, then the slide release broke requiring the replacement of the trigger housing again. Oh and of course there's the cheap plastic safety that broke. Convenient that Mossberg fanboys will always neglect to mention these issues though. The polishing is an easy fix, but I haven't even needed to do it. As far as the slide release breaking on the Mossy, well it happened to 2 other people I know so it's not a fluke. Wait make that 3. I sold a trigger group to a fellow member that had it happen to his dad's gun while he was borrowing it.

Just to chime in on the Mossberg shotgun issues, I remember seeing a post on Big 5's offering of the 500 in which many of the Mossbergs had cracked front stocks (the plastic pump part). A few of these had come apart during use. Not a widespread issue, but was an issue for a while at some Big 5's.
Just sayin. All manufacturers have their thing. LCP recall, smith and wesson with the Walther ppk's, ect ect. If all that is needed for the 870 is a polish, then this is hardly a recall, or a broken part like mossberg experienced.
All these company's are solid by the way, mossberg included.

[benbangui]

Taking a shotgun course was an eye-opener for me. I used to be a 'pistol guy', now I can clover leaf slugs at 75 yards using open sights with my 870 PMax (Ok, not alla time but those are damn big holes even if they aren't touching).

My back-up is an older Police Magnum I picked up for $300, keep an eye out for trade-in's. I'm building an Express Magnum for my step-father for Xmas, it's a little rougher but not bad at all.

As far as Mossberg's, I don't know. I just don't care for them. I have one here in the house and it's waiting to be given away. The action isn't as smooth and it just, I dunno, it isn't an 870 I guess.

Bud's has trade-in's fairly often, Keisler's as well but they deal with LEOs only. Good luck with whatever you pick up!

ill take it!

[joepamjohn]

You might find 870's in police cars, but you'll find Mossberg 590's and Benellis1014's being used by US Military in the Big Sand Box. And I'd venture a bet there's as many there as in anywhere else and getting used 10X more.

The reason the military is currently using them is that Mossberg was the lowest bidder on the contract. Cheaper costs to make = cheaper bids to sell in mass volume. It has nothing to do with better Mossberg quality. The Military also opted to use the Beretta 92F in 9mm over the time proven 1911/A1 .45. Was that a smart move? I can tell you what I would rather carry.

By the way I also didn't ever recall Mossberg selling over 10 million of their pumps either, did they? Even with a military contract they will never reach the fame, recognition and sales volume that the 870 has enjoyed in the private market.

There are only 3 pump guns that you will read about in history books, with the 870 being the most recognized.

1) Winchester Model 12
2) Ithaca Model 37
3) Remington 870

Mossberg 500/590....Not there.

[GravyPersists]

I bought a current production mossberg as my first shotgun about eight months ago and the thing is a piece of junk, 40 rounds of buckshot and the stock came loose and needed to be re-tightened, and after about 500 rounds of birdshot the thing is FTF of three out of four shots. I want my money back.

[AeroEngi]

Much to do with Mossberg putting in a much lower bid than Remington. Military goes with cheapest, not necessarily the best. I'm in no way knocking the Mossberg 590, but no way I would keep my 500 over my 870, or a 590A1 over the 870P. Just to show I'm not just biased against something I don't own Missing from the photos are the other competitors: 870P, Winchester 1300, Daniel Defense middy, and my S&W 99. The DD, S&W , and 870P are my go to weapons

I totally agree with this! The only reason why the military went with the Mossbergs is because their bid was lower than Remington's bid. Both shotguns passed every test the military put them through. The Mossbergs just cost less.

[TrailerparkTrash]

Forget a Mossberg. 870's are as high quality as they ever were but most people opt for the cheaper finished plastic guns. A new Wingmaster is probably 700-800.00 these days and the junk finish plastic stock guns are less than 300.00. The bones of the gun are the same, the fit and finish are not so the cheaper guns occasionally need some rough edges taken off. They still have high quality steel receivers and internals that Mossberg and others do not.

Agree 100%. The Wingmaster varients are awesome! Screw Mossberg.

[FatalKitty]

The reason the military is currently using them is that Mossberg was the lowest bidder on the contract. Cheaper costs to make = cheaper bids to sell in mass volume. It has nothing to do with better Mossberg quality. The Military also opted to use the Beretta 92F in 9mm over the time proven 1911/A1 .45. Was that a smart move? I can tell you what I would rather carry.

By the way I also didn't ever recall Mossberg selling over 10 million of their pumps either, did they? Even with a military contract they will never reach the fame, recognition and sales volume that the 870 has enjoyed in the private market.

There are only 3 pump guns that you will read about in history books, with the 870 being the most recognized.

1) Winchester Model 12
2) Ithaca Model 37
3) Remington 870

Mossberg 500/590....Not there.

On base I saw several Mossbergs, all of them performed flawlessly
I was able to get an 870 - 20inch barrel, rifle sighted. I didn't get this by choice... it was just handed to me... I didn't have any preference either way back then. After 2 years... I quickly gained one. Remington or Die

I totally agree with this! The only reason why the military went with the Mossbergs is because their bid was lower than Remington's bid. Both shotguns passed every test the military put them through. The Mossbergs just cost less.

Remington never entered into that test - They KNEW that there wasnt a way to beat the price of an ALUMINUM receiver shotgun like the mossberg - they were just too cheap.

[Squidward]

From an expert

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdW2TAfN3mQ

[aippi]

How does a solid steel extractor issue relate to a barrel issue? Also, this issue was resolved and the last 100 extractors I have got in are perfect. I stayed on them about the issue and I bet they got a lot of calls after my post also. You take a post of mine and attempt to use it to prove what? Don't know. But what you proved to me is that even though I am less then presonable, people read my post and believe them. You believed my post about the extractors but don't want to believe my post about the barrels. Rather selective isn't it? Pick out what you want to use and ignor the rest. I am either right on Remington shotguns or I am not. I either know the subject or I don't.

And one more time guys. Remington did not enter a weapon into the bidding that Mossberg won. There was no Remington Shotgun submitted. So Mossberg did not beat out the Remington for the last big Military Shotgun. Golly Gee guys, you read this mess on the internet and accept it as a fact and keep repeating it even though you make great points as to why the Military accepted the weapon they did. Not to start another fight but those were the same clowns that canned the 1911 for the 92F. Rest my case.