bootleg weapons lights????

[aippi]

I am convinced these are out there and are being sold on Internet sites and at gun shows and such. I have only been able to speak to a few guys who have knowledge of this. These dealers share my conviction that some of the most popular light are being bootlegged. It is not a topic to bring up with the manufacturers of the lights that are being copied. I tired and got the company line on the topic. If these lights are out there as I believe they are then these companies have to know. Some guy buys a bootleg one, something goes wrong with it and he sends it in for warranty work. They have to know it is not theirs. They know the warranty registration number is fake. Would they repair these to keep the people from knowing this about their product being bootlegged?

I am trying to find out as much as I can about this. A quick review of some leading auction sites shows several brands of weapons light being sold far below dealer cost. I am talking about the lowest cost any dealer can buy this product. So, the same product being sold consistently by the same guy at a price far below what he can buy it for is suspicious for sure. These products are ripe for this due to the cost, how small they are so that many can be shipped in to the country and the fact they are selling so well. I would even think that some high end optics could be involved.

Any first hand experience would be helpful. I would prefer no name brands are mentioned as this could be unfair to that Manufacturer unless you have in your possession bootlegged product and can prove it is not original. Of course this is just my preference on the topic and guys will post what they choose to. I just believe that facts should be posted if a brand name is mentioned.

Ideas from guys on how to avoid this such as buying from reputable dealers, known suppliers and from the Companies web site and other ideas would be welcomed also. I will take the best advice and offer it on my web site.

[CDMJ]

I think a lot of this stuff is made for the Airsoft market and has some how made it's way into the self defense market. Either by people who care little about their own self worth so they would rather save some money and buy a knock off. Or by people who are scammed into believing what they are buying is the real deal. Some of these items are packaged to look just like the real product.
Here is an airsoft forum review of a knock off light that is a prime example. It looks a lot like the real thing. http://www.maasf.org/forum/showthrea...ht-%28Gen-1%29

And here is a replica M951 http://www.apextac.com/catalog/item/6540834/7451642.htm
M900 http://www.apextac.com/catalog/item/6540834/6664352.htm
M972 http://www.apextac.com/catalog/item/6540834/8212971.htm
M961 http://www.apextac.com/catalog/item/6540834/7451635.htm
M600C http://www.apextac.com/catalog/item/6540834/7451663.htm
M300C http://www.apextac.com/catalog/item/6540834/8198304.htm

These were all found in less then two minutes using google. On that website are other light companies lights and lasers that are being bootlegged. So any company that is saying their stuff is not being counterfeited is either in denial or ignorant to the facts.

[CDMJ]

I wanted to add, this goes way, way, beyond lights. This is a subject that I feel very strongly about. I do not want to get on my soap box but for some reason people do not seem to understand the harm these types of products cause. They hurt everyone in business. From the manufacturers to the distributors to the dealers to the storefronts and even the customers. These people in over in China and other places in the world that make knock off products hurt our economy. The people that buy this stuff hurt our economy. Daniel Defense is an American company located in Black Creek, GA. Their AR parts are not cheap. However they are high quality. This is a complete knock off of one of their products and it is sicking. http://www.apextac.com/catalog/item/6540841/6935673.htm It is patent infringement. It is counterfeiting. It is theft. The same can be said for the knock off lights.

[aippi]

I noticed that one of those threads shows a light and states it is a Replica. This of course is honest to the buyer as they know they are not getting the real thing. Am I right in assuming that if they state it is a replica and it is made in China the real manufacturer has not recourse?

Now, if it is being passed off as the real thing like some of the ones on E-bay, with no disclaimer what so ever, then that is aslo fraud, Correct?

[Skidmark]

It will be a fine day when U.S. Trade representatives grow a pair, and put the kibosh on the knock-off counterfeiters and bootleggers. But no, they're too afraid of jeopardizing relations, what with the matter of all the U.S. debt that China is holding. It's not an Obama problem - it's a timidity problem, that goes back to Bush, to Clinton, and beyond. Who gets screwed? The U.S. companies, whether manufacturing here or abroad, and their customers.

[Cokebottle]

I noticed that one of those threads shows a light and states it is a Replica. This of course is honest to the buyer as they know they are not getting the real thing. Am I right in assuming that if they state it is a replica and it is made in China the real manufacturer has not recourse?

Now, if it is being passed off as the real thing like some of the ones on E-bay, with no disclaimer what so ever, then that is aslo fraud, Correct?

The seller may have no liability if they are stating that it is a replica (and I'm not 100% certain, but at least they are being honest), but it is a crime to manufacture a "clone" that is not licensed, so even being sold as a replica, the manufacturer is not off the hook.

However, a patent is only as good as your ability to enforce it.

[CDMJ]

Guys, just a quick warning. I bumped this thread after a phone call from JD this afternoon asking if I still had these links.

You have to be careful buying Surefire lights off Ebay. Surefire DEALERS are not selling lights on Ebay. So if you buy a Surefire light off Ebay you do so at your own risk. If you call Surefire they will tell you this directly. If the price is too good to be true it probably is and most likely what you are buying is a knock off. Some of the knock off's are so convincing it can be hard to tell you don't have a real Surefire until it breaks and you try to send it in for replacement.

The world of counterfeiting is getting really high tech. There are companies out there that specialize in just making knock off cases and boxes for the Surefire lights. While another company makes the knock off Surefire lights themselves. A guy can buy the box for $30 dollars and the light for $50 dollars, sell them on Ebay for $165 to $265 dollars. (http://cgi.ebay.com/Surefire-M600C-B...item20b611ee2a http://cgi.ebay.com/SUREFIRE-M600C-B...item27b659167d ). When questioned about this these "dealers" will claim that they get these lights below cost because these lights are a) being discontinued and b) they buy in bulk. This is just not the truth. Even at the tip of the dealer price bracket both of those prices are below dealer cost and the M600C Scout light is one of the more popular lights Surefire makes. It is not going to get discontinued any time soon. Since it is one of the more popular lights Surefire makes it is also one of the more common lights that gets counterfeited. So be careful when buying lights, optics and lasers off Ebay. If the price is too good to be true it probably is. If you are in the market for a Surefire weapon light and you are going to invest that kind of money you owe it to your self to do your homework. So much stuff is getting counterfeited these days. Make sure to buy from an actual Surefire dealer.

These are all replica Surefires. A lot of them are sold on Ebay in Surefire boxes as actual Surefire lights to unsuspecting consumers. No, they are not as good as actual Surefire's. They are Chinese airsoft copies made out of lower quality materials and they are not designed to handle the recoil of actual firearms they are designed to "look" the part.

replica M951 http://www.apextac.com/catalog/item/6540834/7451642.htm
replica M900 http://www.apextac.com/catalog/item/6540834/6664352.htm
replica M972 http://www.apextac.com/catalog/item/6540834/8212971.htm
replica M961 http://www.apextac.com/catalog/item/6540834/7451635.htm
replica M600C http://www.apextac.com/catalog/item/6540834/7451663.htm
replica M300C http://www.apextac.com/catalog/item/6540834/8198304.htm
replica M952V http://www.apextac.com/catalog/item/6540834/8443415.htm

[Mesa Tactical]

With this thread one of the most active and popular on Calguns, I suspect your warnings are falling largely on deaf ears.

Americans will slice their own throats for a "bargain."

[caoboy]

Why not just get a legitimate G2 Nitrolon? It's 35 bucks. You can get an LED upgrade and some rechargeable batteries for not too much more, and have a weapon light that works really well.

[CDMJ]

With this thread one of the most active and popular on Calguns, I suspect your warnings are falling largely on deaf ears.

Americans will slice their own throats for a "bargain."

Sadly you are correct. For not a whole lot more money those guys can get a mil-spec tube that is American made and I bet it wouldn't rattle around like a rattle snake in a pillow case like I am sure that stock set does.

Why not just get a legitimate G2 Nitrolon? It's 35 bucks. You can get an LED upgrade and some rechargeable batteries for not too much more, and have a weapon light that works really well.

You are missing the point. Nobody is searching for a weapon light. I have plenty. The point is if people are in the market for them beware of the knock offs. By the way, they are even knocking off the lower end Surefire's as well. Mounts, rails, switches, optics. Everything is getting knocked off. This post was more of a buyer beware. Not a "why not" discussion. The market is getting flooded with knock offs that just buying lower end Surefire G2's and Streamlight C4's isn't going to avoid it. You still run the risk of getting hit by one of these counterfeiters if you buy a mount. Or if you buy a red dot. My post was to get guys thinking.

[Cokebottle]

With this thread one of the most active and popular on Calguns, I suspect your warnings are falling largely on deaf ears.

Americans will slice their own throats for a "bargain."

430 posts in 18 months is "one of the most active"?
That's less than 1 post per day.

It only remains active because the seller keeps bumping it.

[Cokebottle]

Sadly you are correct. For not a whole lot more money those guys can get a mil-spec tube that is American made and I bet it wouldn't rattle around like a rattle snake in a pillow case like I am sure that stock set does.

Define "not a whole lot".

A quality MS tube and A4 buttstock is going to be at least double his price.

[Noobert]

I can't imagine those would rattle any more than my "American-made mil-spec tube" does

[aippi]

I read a post on the internet that stated the Hawk shotgun was on par with the 870 Police. So, for that guy these counterfeit lights are the way to go. For me, I used the 6P during my career, still have it and I want the real deal. I want the company that stands behind it also.

There is little to no effort to protect American Manufacturers from this mess. Our Federal Agencies are to busy flying over our land to make sure we have not put a pond in or drained a stinking ditch. No wonder our economy is a train wreck. They use their right to regulate commerece as a way to make us buy health insurance yet they do nothing to protect ligitimate manufacturers and consumers. Their mess only works for their agendas. BUYER BEWARE

[tacticalcity]

I buy the products I sell directly from the manufacturers or from their national distributors. So I know with absolute certainty that the products I sell are the real deal.

But I have purchased Air Soft stuff in the past just to compare them to the real thing for my own edification. Avoid them. I had a G&P SureFire clone melt while in my hand. However, I have never seen anybody try and pass off a fake as the real deal. Everything I have seen is real or they specifically say it is a copy or a clone.