why are SG's viewed as HD guns and rarely SHTF weapons?

[larryratcliff]

I am guessing that SHTF is S&*%^ hit the fan ... I would say there isnt any 1 gun I would want in that scenario. A good rifle, hand gun and shotgun is just about right IMHO.

[dchang0]

In all but the end of the world situtations I would like to know when you think your justified in killing some outside the range of 00 Buck?

I'd be fully justified in killing someone in self defense outside the range of 00 Buck when that someone is firing on me with a rifle of most any kind--even a .22LR is capable of exceeding the effective range of 00 Buck (which is, at most, 100yds).

Bad guys are going to want to use every advantage they have over their victims, including range.

[Noraku81]

Reality, as I see it, is that in a SHTF scenario people that believe that they are going to take to the street Ranger style are going to be toast. Escape and evasion are key. Stay hidden and only engage threats that are danger close. In this case a shotgun is optimal. If I had to have one weapon for SHTF it would be a Mossberg 500 or Rem 870 with an 18 and 28" barrel. Assuming most of us live in urban or suburban environments, take a look outside with a rangefinder. More than likely you only have a 100 yard maximum field of fire anyway.

I see it the same way. If SHTF and its the ChiComs invading, I will let the military and all the AR and AK nuts go fight them and evade my way to safety!

[cortayack]

SG is a great close range weapon system....But I would pefer a medium range weapon with some punch... Most likely you are going to be in a urban environment. Cars, buildings, etc....Thats why I would pick 7.62 for SHTF. It has medium range and has no problem going through bricks, car doors and walls.....

[racky]

this thread owns ! but i'll stick to my AR and my usp. the chances of finding 5.56 and 9mm from bodies would be much greater than a sg imo.

[okimreloaded]

Not that I think any shtf situations are about to happen, but being that I like to be prepared - I just bought a ruger 10/22. lightweight, can carry a lot of rounds, accurate, and I feel that a .22 is essential as a survival tool. I think a shotgun is much better than a rifle as it can be used for hunting small game as well as defense, and while I'd like to have a rifle with as many rounds as possible, if I could only have a rifle or a shotgun I'd pick a shotgun over a rifle any day and if we're talking strictly self defense I'd be more inclined to pick a full frame pistol and a big jacket. Large weapons would draw attention to me, and my goal would be to get out of the city and up to the woods, where I already would have some long guns for hunting and survival. I think on the way out if you hit any military road checks, they're going to take your guns anyway.

As far as defense goes, I think having as many guys with you that are like minded and you can trust that are armed as well will be much more effective than a long range rifle or a machine gun. Predatory people are likely to attack the weak.

[xgi1991]

It has medium range and has no problem going through bricks, car doors and walls.....

Slugs do not have a problem with those either. Bottom line, long range, your going to need a rifle. But within a 100 yards, the 12ga will do just fine. As long as you train that way.

[Dangerous]

which shotgun though? id take the winchester 1887. with the huge loop of course.

[Plinkin]

00 buck at 100 yds. ?

Shoot 1 of these at 75 yds. with it. And than see how close you really have to get to do some damage.

make a big cardboard target, i think you just didnt hit the bucket at 75 yards with the spread.

[longarmshortlegs]

If someone is outside of the range of 00 Buck are they really a threat?

I'd imagine that if this were really the end of the world, or that the fan was covered in poop, the definition of "self-defense" and everything that comes with it, would be completely different from the definition and terms/essentials we use today.

What does SHTF and end-of-world really mean? For self-defense purposes, if self-defense is even a factor, we need to define SHTF and the circumstances.

if the "ChiCom" or others were invading, and happened to be marching up the beach toward PCH then a 100meter+ shot might be justified in self-defense.

When SHTF, what is self-defense?

Example of circumstance:
You own 30 acres of land, and the SHTF (of course). 30 acres down the road you see two people with guns walking toward your home. You know that SHTF and these guys are not coming to shake your hand. Do you wait until they are at your door, or until one is at the front door and one at the back door? Do you wait until they fire first, or take aim first, or disappear into the woods near your house to wait for nightfall?

[juelz919]

Example of circumstance:
You own 30 acres of land, and the SHTF (of course). 30 acres down the road you see two people with guns walking toward your home. You know that SHTF and these guys are not coming to shake your hand. Do you wait until they are at your door, or until one is at the front door and one at the back door? Do you wait until they fire first, or take aim first, or disappear into the woods near your house to wait for nightfall?

this train of thought actually really worries me.. Killing every person that comes within "30 acres" of your property is not the answer.. if it is, when "SHTF" good men will be killing fellow good men for no reason other than panic and histeria..

but for Close Quarter Combat NOTHING beats the shotgun.. NOTHING..
But a medium range weapon definitely has it's place, and a long range weapon has its place.. it is all situational

[Cokebottle]

but for Close Quarter Combat NOTHING beats the shotgun.. NOTHING..
But a medium range weapon definitely has it's place, and a long range weapon has its place.. it is all situational

Bingo.

I don't see a realistic SHTF scenario (natural disaster, financial collapse) as being any different than a home defense situation... because for the most part, you are going to be defending yourself, your family, your supplies, and your (temporary or permanent) home.
That's going to be SG/HG territory.

If the situation becomes more prolonged and food availability becomes an issue, then medium/long range rifles in various calibers would become helpful... 10/22, AR/AK... possibly into the .308 range if larger game is available.

[longarmshortlegs]

this train of thought actually really worries me.. Killing every person that comes within "30 acres" of your property is not the answer.. if it is, when "SHTF" good men will be killing fellow good men for no reason other than panic and histeria..

Well . . . . I see what you're saying, however, I'm not saying that you shoot at shadows. In my scenario you should have identified your target (safety first!). It's not a "Shootanythingbreathing" scenario. But again, we have to define SHTF, and here someone included "enemy invasion".

So, if you identify your target at 100 meters, and that target is coming to take your life, AND the circumstances and background/theme/scenario is SHTF, do you shoot or do you run (take cover, call police, surrender, etc.)?

As I said (and you said), it depends on the situation. I can see how you could be disturbed if you left that part out. Can't leave that part out. As I stated in the previous post, what is SHTF? is it earthquake? Katrina? Stock market crash? Zombies? Terrorist nuke? Chinese invasion? Government agencies (police, FBI, ATF, Military, etc) coming to disarm? SHTF? I'm not sponsoring blind-shooting or hysteria. In any case, identifiy your target (as a target).

[Dangerous]

this train of thought actually really worries me.. Killing every person that comes within "30 acres" of your property is not the answer.. if it is, when "SHTF" good men will be killing fellow good men for no reason other than panic and histeria..

but for Close Quarter Combat NOTHING beats the shotgun.. NOTHING..
But a medium range weapon definitely has it's place, and a long range weapon has its place.. it is all situational

F/A uzi? i think that could arguably beat the shotgun.

[Cokebottle]

F/A uzi? i think that could arguably beat the shotgun.

Nahh... shotgun at least gets all of the pellets in the same general area.

FA Uzi is going to tend to paint a vertical line up the wall.... might get one or two rounds into the zombie if you're lucky.