Home Defense 12ga?

[BigPimping]

[kilrain]

LE guy here, I saw a big fat guy shot at about 10 feet with 12 gauge with #7 shot twice in the torso below the rib cage. No penetration but it took 2" balls of fat out of him and put them on the concrete. I don't recommend birdshot but know it can cause damage.

[gabe123]

I wouldn't use 3in shells for home defense. It kicks too much without much added benefit. I would go the other direction, low recoil buckshots.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I irrespective of all that has come before, I think a face full of 3" BB's would be pretty devastating inside of 15 yards. Obviously 00 or 000 would be better but if you are ina pinch BB's are a pretty serious load.

As far as the Semi Auto for HD I'd say you'd be better off with a Pump Gun simply because after you learn how to run it it is just as effective as a Semi Auto for short engagements like HD or SD inside your house. The other side of that coin is the fact that you can be up and running for<$500 which would give you more money for training which is the key to surviving a Gun Fight. Without the training and lots of practice you are behind the curve with any gun.

Here's a pic of my HD gun. Note the Barrel has the entire Vang Comp Treatment as well as Rifle Sights. The gun shoots Bird Shot, Buck Shot and Slugs equally well. In the dark the rifle sights show up well due to the 6 O'clock position of the Streamlight TLR 1. It is also easy to run with your Index Finger without breaking your grip on the Fore End.

1 Shot on 4 different targets in <3 seconds is very doable

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Hope this helps in your quest for Home Safety and I urge you and anyone else reading this to get trained as quickly as possible, because the upcoming "Fight for California" is coming. You can never know what is lurking around the next corner, and if the criminality in the recent past is any indication of what is to come, it would be a good idea to get prepared ASAP !!!.

Randy

[acaligunner]

[acaligunner]

A nice guardian 12 gauge ~
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[acaligunner]

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[THBailey]

Home defense? A few factors: Who all is in the home? And where are they? What will stop your projectiles? Access to your weapon when the thugs #12 boot kicks open the door and six big, ugly armed dudes rush in? If you get lucky and prevail what happens when the authorities arrive? An empty nest couple has different priorities in these regards than a family with youngsters scattered around the house. That 1 1/8 oz 12ga bird shot load throws 490 grains out the muzzle at 1300 fps. Within probable "in the home" range this strikes with the terminal energy approaching double that of the 44mag. It does sub-optimize on penetration and that is the compromise one might reasonably accept in favor of your children protected only by sheet rock walls. And when that Soro's funded DA looks things over, better to appear to be a lucky quail hunter rather than a Rambo wanna be who set up an ambush.

Birdshot vs. a slab of meat: https://youtu.be/3gGCedWUkk8

Wall penetration: https://youtu.be/zaR1EVybUgc

[deadcoyote]

[W.R.Buchanan]

Wow, Maybe this is a good reason to Reload your shot shells/?

I don't buy Buck Shot or Slugs. I do have some store bought ammo left over from my Front Sight Days and I don't shoot much Buckshot anyway. But what I do shoot is my Trap Loads with 0 Buck (which I cast myself) instead of the #8 shot.

This is not that hard, and if you are only loading a few of these you can get by with a Lee Classic Loader Kit off Ebay or even make your own. If you already have a MEC or some other kind of Single Stage Reloading Press, you can do everything on it except drop the shot (which you will hand drop) Then either Fold Crimp on the machine or Roll Crimp on your drill press or simple hand operated Roll Crimper.

If you do a Google Search for "Shot Shell Reloading Kits" there are many that you can buy or copy at home to do the job. All you need to do is knock out the Dead Primer, then put a new one in, then scoop in some powder, the push a Wad in,,, Then whatever payload you want, then close the hull by either Fold Crimping or Roll Crimping. Most of this can be done with a piece of 1/2" dowel with a Nail in the end to push the dead primer out, and then a plain piece of dowel to push the wad in.

There's a Lee Loader on Ebay for $45 + $7 shipping and several others around that price as well. Plus that there is many variations of these tools shown on You Tube, Some kits are as low as $30!

Here's a picture of my 12ga.Tool Kit, and I got it at a gun show in the 80's for $10 This was the Direct Predecessor of the Lee Tool. (Lee Classic Loader.

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You'll need Primers, Powder and Wads in addition to the simple tools to reload Shot Shells.

Hope this helps

Randy.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Is there a right and wrong way to load mixed shells (law enforcement style for clearing rooms) or is it strictly personal preference? I can carry quite a few.

I load 00 or 000 Buck in my house gun, and I have 4 more on the Side Saddle along with 2 Slugs.

Usually you will want the gun kept "Cruiser Ready,,," that is,,, Magazine Full,,, Hammer Down on an Empty Chamber,,, and Safety OFF. The gun is completely safe that way but can be brought to Ready instantly.

You pick the gun up and rack the slide and you are ready to go. The reasons for this are, 1. you are not relying on the safety, or forgetting to disengage it when under pressure, and 2. as soon as you rack the slide there is room for another round.

Why would you need this?

There is a maneuver called a "Select Slug Drill." This is where you quickly exchange the round in the chamber for a different type of round. This comes in handy when a shot presents itself at a longer range than is appropriate for Buckshot (beyond 25-35 yards) and you want to take that shot.

There are several ways to do this however the fastest and most widely taught method is to grab a Round off your Side Saddle or where ever you carry the extras, and stuff it into the magazine. Obviously you can only do this if the magazine is not completely full. Then you rack the slide and waste the round that was in the chamber, and chuck up the Slug. Now you are good out to 100 yards,,, If you practiced?.

(This is also the reason why you need Rifle Sights on your gun.)

Hope this helps?

Randy

[madland]

I'm gonna throw my .02 in here with regards to shotguns for HD. The reasons I feel a pistol is a better choice is the ability to hold a pistol on target and a cell phone in the other hand dialing 911. I can also steer my kids to safety with one hand and my other hand can still be pointing my piston down the hall. I can also use my WML with the same hand I'm holding my pistol with.
Ask yourself if you can do any of these things while holding 2 hands on your shotgun.

Again this is just my opinion. You do you. If you prefer the shotgun then by all means. I'm not going to tell you it's wrong. Again..just my .02

[Ari_d_sparki]

Is there a right and wrong way to load mixed shells (law enforcement style for clearing rooms) or is it strictly personal preference? I can carry quite a few.

I load 00 or 000 Buck in my house gun, and I have 4 more on the Side Saddle along with 2 Slugs.

Usually you will want the gun kept "Cruiser Ready,,," that is,,, Magazine Full,,, Hammer Down on an Empty Chamber,,, and Safety OFF. The gun is completely safe that way but can be brought to Ready instantly.

You pick the gun up and rack the slide and you are ready to go. The reasons for this are, 1. you are not relying on the safety, or forgetting to disengage it when under pressure, and 2. as soon as you rack the slide there is room for another round.

Why would you need this?

There is a maneuver called a "Select Slug Drill." This is where you quickly exchange the round in the chamber for a different type of round. This comes in handy when a shot presents itself at a longer range than is appropriate for Buckshot (beyond 25-35 yards) and you want to take that shot.

There are several ways to do this however the fastest and most widely taught method is to grab a Round off your Side Saddle or where ever you carry the extras, and stuff it into the magazine. Obviously you can only do this if the magazine is not completely full. Then you rack the slide and waste the round that was in the chamber, and chuck up the Slug. Now you are good out to 100 yards,,, If you practiced?.

(This is also the reason why you need Rifle Sights on your gun.)

Hope this helps?

Randy

Randy. I just read this and found it very informative. The first part is how I keep the house Vang Comp anyway. The second part I hadn't thought of but does help for the variety of shells I keep in the saddle.
Thank you!

[tacticalcity]

IMO...

I would not rely on or recommend using bird shot for self-defense.
Although bird shot makes a lot of superficial damage, it lacks the penetration to effectively stop a motivated aggressor and in order to be effective, accuracy and shot placement is very important (head shots only).

#4 buck shot is the smallest sized shot load acceptable for self-defense.

I stick with #00 buck shot because its what I'm used to and know will work in my shotguns.

Whatever you end up wanting to use for self-defense, test it in the firearm you intend to use, in order to determine if the ammo is reliable with your firearm.

I am far from an expert on anything shotgun as I have always gravitated towards the AR platform. However, I do own several shotguns. Including two meant for self-defense by their design. I was always taught that #00 buck shot was king for this purpose. This would be my go-to for most self-defense purposes along with keeping a couple slugs in the side saddle for when needed. Birdshot is meant for birds, and snakes.

I was given some interesting ammo from Winchester called PXDL Defender that has a 1" rifled slug and 3 #00 buck pellets. Have yet to try it out and pattern it. I wouldn't want to use it for the typical slug usage. Headshots or door frames. Those 3 00 buck pellets would be risky. But it would make an interesting alternative to #00 buck shot for what you would normally want #00 buck shot for.

[buttfish]

There never seems to be any reports of 20 gauge? I picked up a nice Mossberg 20/20, have a veriety of rounds loaded, for initial contact 6 shot; then the surprises are behind it, SLUG, OO, OOO, 2 & 4 shot, in no particular order.