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The relationship between over-unders and suits

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  • BB1776
    Member
    • Aug 2016
    • 439

    The relationship between over-unders and suits

    I have long dreamed of getting a nice over/under shotgun. By long, I mean going on a quarter century or so now. For most of that time ?nice? meant something with a wood stock and engraving, say a Beretta 686 or Browning Citori or the like. However, now that I have entered a point in my life where I can finally acquire one of these beauts, I have realized two things:

    1) My previous definition of ?nice? is only entry level. To get something really pretty I?ll need at least 8K, more like 10 or 12 and on up the cost of a new Porsche. For the time being (and until I can convince my wife otherwise) I am going to trick myself into believing that a 2K-3K Beretta or Browning is plenty nice.

    2) Expecting a shotgun to fit off the rack is precisely like expecting a new suit to fit off the rack? it just does not happen.

    Given the anticipation of finally fulfilling a years-long dream, I have been watching far too many YouTube videos and reading far too many articles about over/unders. From what I gather, fit is paramount. Well, I have tried on every over/under in a 70 mile radius of my house and none of them fit. Just like trying to buy a suit off the rack, the Brownings are either too heavy for my purposes or the length of pull is too short or they don?t have the requisite engraving to qualify as ?nice? in my book. The Berettas (and, admittedly, I really want a Silver Pigeon) don?t have enough cast to them for my eye to naturally look straight down the barrel. And getting one with an adjustable stock is beyond unicorn level from what I can tell.

    So, it?s looking like I will have to buy one and then alter it to some degree or another. Hopefully it will fit well enough to get a couple points higher on the clays than I currently get with my 870. Or, at least, it will look good on the range and in my safe.

    After that, it?s on to the next dream? traveling to London and getting a gun custom fitted, but I?m pretty sure that?s going to cost me more than a suit.
    Last edited by BB1776; 11-27-2023, 11:20 PM. Reason: Too many question marks
  • #2
    TAS
    Probationary Member
    CGN Contributor - Lifetime
    • Jun 2009
    • 1258

    It looks like you’re in NorCal but don’t specify. Have you tried Coyote Valley Sporting Clays in Morgan Hill? It’s been a while since I’ve been there but they had a vast selection of shotguns to try. Might be worth it if you haven’t all ready tried them out. I bought my Browning from there years ago and remember them being quite helpful.

    Enjoy the natural beauty of our location in the hills of Santa Clara Valley and experience the friendliness of our knowledgeable staff. Please note that if you are not knowledgeable and experienced with shotgun handling and safety, you must be accompanied by someone who is in order to shoot here.
    NRA Life Member

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    • #3
      BOBGBA
      CGN/CGSSA Contributor
      CGN Contributor
      • Sep 2010
      • 2388

      Originally posted by BB1776
      ...Expecting a shotgun to fit off the rack is precisely like expecting a new suit to fit off the rack? it just does not happen...
      For the vast majority of people, one or the other will fit off the rack, or will be easily made to fit by adding a different length recoil pad (and/or spacers).

      Some may have to choose between a Browning or a Beretta for what feels best.

      Others may be ok with the fit of Browning and Beretta.

      If they didn't work for most people, Beretta and Browning wouldn't be making many O/U shotguns.


      Originally posted by BB1776
      ...After that, it?s on to the next dream? traveling to London and getting a gun custom fitted...
      There are plenty of places in the USA to get a proper gun fit.

      Here's one (read the custom fitting section) :https://wenig.com/products-services/

      Here's another: https://colegun.com/cole-customs/

      I'm sure you can use google to find more....
      God Bless America - My iTrader rating - https://www.calguns.net/forum/market...2-transactions

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      • #4
        JagerDog
        I need a LIFE!!
        • May 2011
        • 14559

        Originally posted by BOBGBA
        For the vast majority of people, one or the other will fit off the rack, or will be easily made to fit by adding a different length recoil pad (and/or spacers).

        Some may have to choose between a Browning or a Beretta for what feels best.

        Others may be ok with the fit of Browning and Beretta.

        If they didn't work for most people, Beretta and Browning wouldn't be making many O/U shotguns.




        There are plenty of places in the USA to get a proper gun fit.

        Here's one (read the custom fitting section) :https://wenig.com/products-services/

        Here's another: https://colegun.com/cole-customs/

        I'm sure you can use google to find more....
        I agree. Some can shoot one B and not the other. I shoot both about the same. Adding an adjustable butt piece satisfies many others and it's not a king's ransom to add. Nor is an adjustable comb. All in is maybe $500. An avid clay shooter will eat more than that in ammo in short order.

        I do find the Citori 12g's to be a bit blocky. The 20g is quite svelte.

        OP might try finding a lightly used Beretta 682 as they had a bit of cast and palm swell. They're on the heavy side (like any actual target gun), but the balance helps them not feel too heavy. Personally I find the Silver Pigeon a bit cheesy with the embossed "engraving".
        Last edited by JagerDog; 11-28-2023, 10:19 AM.
        Palestine is a fake country

        No Mas Hamas



        #Blackolivesmatter

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        • #5
          Imageview
          Senior Member
          • Jul 2018
          • 1627

          For one of my shotguns I went with the gracoil system, allows me to adjust LOP and has an adjustable cheek piece. Was fairly reasonable, company had it back to me fairly quickly. Recoil reduction is a bonus. I shoot lefty, so finding something off the rack is basically impossible without going to a specialty dealer.

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          • #6
            Tarmy
            CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
            CGN Contributor - Lifetime
            • Feb 2016
            • 4060

            Originally posted by TAS
            It looks like you?re in NorCal but don?t specify. Have you tried Coyote Valley Sporting Clays in Morgan Hill? It?s been a while since I?ve been there but they had a vast selection of shotguns to try. Might be worth it if you haven?t all ready tried them out. I bought my Browning from there years ago and remember them being quite helpful.

            https://www.coyoteclays.com/
            Was there last week. Rented, cause I am thinking I want to buy one, an A400. Damn nice shooter that fits me well.

            They have a good selection to rent, not as many as they used to.

            I have found only two off the shelf perfect fits. The one I own and that A400 They are out there OP, just gotta go out and shoulder as many as you can.
            Wilson Protector .45, Springer 9mm Loaded, Franchi Instinct SL .12ga. and some other cool stuff for the kiddos...

            Comment

            • #7
              W.R.Buchanan
              Veteran Member
              • Jan 2008
              • 3378

              I must be either 'Mr. Average Guy" or extremely lucky cuz every shotgun I pick up fits me perfectly.

              I like Browning's best.

              I'm shooting my MonkeyBerg tomorrow at a 3 gun in Santa Barbara and I was playing with it, and was not surprised how easily it comes to point and how the Open Sights just seem to line up perfectly as it's mounted.



              Randy
              Attached Files
              Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 12-02-2023, 5:36 PM.
              Rule #1 Liberals screw up everything they touch.
              Rule #2 Whatever they accuse you of, they are already doing.
              Rule #3 Liberals lie about anything no matter how insignificant.
              Rule #4 If all else fails, they call you a Racist!

              It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It is how well you do what you don't know how to do.
              www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

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              • #8
                TrailerparkTrash
                Veteran Member
                • Oct 2005
                • 4249

                BB1776, I?m with you. I was the same way. I was shocked to learn and be educated of the fact that the Citories and Silver Pigeons are considered “entry level” O/U’s for the “sophisticated” shotgun aristocrats (snobs ) out there. (Joking).

                I totally agree, that the Citoris are too heavy for hunting. However their added weight is what the sporting clay/trap/skeet folks apparently prefer. I’m a hunter, not really a range dude. I want light weight and fast swinging, shortest possible barrel length boomers for upland game birds.

                I wanted something a tad nicer than a 686, so I got the 687 which has upgraded wood and slightly deeper engraving. It looks nice. Plus, anything more expensive and I wouldn’t want to take it out in the harsh fields of Arizona, Texas nor Louisiana where I hunt every year.

                I love the 687 so much, that I bought two more as retirement gifts to myself, giving me three different calibers for such a nice light weight gun for fast wing shooting.

                Check out the 687. It’s the same and proven bullet-proof lock-up as the 686, but with a finer grade finish.
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                • #9
                  W.R.Buchanan
                  Veteran Member
                  • Jan 2008
                  • 3378

                  As a follow up to post 6, the Shotgun Stage had 25 shots. I cleaned the stage which started with 2 poppers holding swingers up. Then 17 Clays at ranges from 7 to 20 yards and finally 4 18x24 steels at 20-25 yards with teh last one having a 3" hole in the center that I shot with a Slug thru the hole for a bonus of 30 "Cool Points!". In 2 min 9 seconds.
                  I only had 6 rounds on board to start with and I "Port Loaded" the rest of the rounds, and the guy timing me got a close up lesson on Port Loading that he hadn't seen before.

                  There is always several "Gamers" there" and two of them beat me by 30 seconds, and one by 10 seconds as they were "Quad Loading" and only had to Reload their guns once due to the 15 round mag tubes.

                  My gun was by far the Fastest Pump Gun there by a wide margin and and I even beat some of the Berettas with 2 foot long mags on. But I was pretty happy with 4th place out of 15 shooters when everybody that beat me used a Semi Auto and was Half my Age!

                  I shot the Mini 14 as well and only missed 2 8" targets at 150+ yards.

                  I had a good day at the shoot!!!

                  Randy
                  Rule #1 Liberals screw up everything they touch.
                  Rule #2 Whatever they accuse you of, they are already doing.
                  Rule #3 Liberals lie about anything no matter how insignificant.
                  Rule #4 If all else fails, they call you a Racist!

                  It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It is how well you do what you don't know how to do.
                  www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Jordon@PacificSporting
                    Junior Member
                    • Dec 2013
                    • 53

                    This is not necessarily addressed to the OP but

                    I think there is far too much time spent saying "fit is everything". I have to say in my experience "instructors" and people spend far more time on saying a gun does or does not fit and not nearly enough time with their technique. So many new shooters have completely inconsistent or outright poor gun mounts and then are quick to say the gun does not fit them. If a shooter does not attempt to place their cheek on a stock or they mount the gun on the their outer bicep, it would not be fair to say the gun does not fit. Gun "fit" is not everything, it is part of the picture, gun mount and technique are a far greater part of the equation than the stock dimensions.

                    The Beretta may absolutely not fit you but I think it would be fair to suggest having someone qualified to look at your gun-mount and evaluate both the stock dimensions of the gun you're looking at and how you're mounting the gun.

                    If someone was being tailored for a suit, they wouldn't stand on one leg and scratch their head while they were being measured. Again, not suggesting there is anything wrong with your gun mount but if someone is evaluating your fit, hopefully they're looking at the whole picture. I've had countless clients say guns don't fit, had instructors tell them their gun doesn't fit but a small adjustment in their gun mount completely solved their issues. There is a reason most gun manufacturers make their stocks the way they do, they are very thought out and they spend a lot of time on them, most off the shelf guns do fit most people very well.

                    Make the trip down here, we can always help!
                    General Manager
                    Pacific Sporting Arms
                    912 W. 10th St
                    Azusa, CA 91702

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                    • #11
                      hermosabeach
                      I need a LIFE!!
                      • Feb 2009
                      • 19383

                      Have you looked at rissini?
                      Rule 1- ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

                      Rule 2 -NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DESTROY (including your hands and legs)

                      Rule 3 -KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

                      Rule 4 -BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEYOND IT
                      (thanks to Jeff Cooper)

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        hermosabeach
                        I need a LIFE!!
                        • Feb 2009
                        • 19383

                        Auto correct

                        Rizzini


                        Rule 1- ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

                        Rule 2 -NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DESTROY (including your hands and legs)

                        Rule 3 -KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

                        Rule 4 -BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEYOND IT
                        (thanks to Jeff Cooper)

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          hermosabeach
                          I need a LIFE!!
                          • Feb 2009
                          • 19383



                          Nice field grades for $2k
                          Rule 1- ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

                          Rule 2 -NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT PREPARED TO DESTROY (including your hands and legs)

                          Rule 3 -KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

                          Rule 4 -BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT IS BEYOND IT
                          (thanks to Jeff Cooper)

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Bakerloo
                            Senior Member
                            • Jun 2009
                            • 1698

                            Originally posted by TrailerparkTrash
                            rds.
                            I love the 687 so much, that I bought two more as retirement gifts to myself, giving me three different calibers for such a nice light weight gun for fast wing shooting.
                            Check out the 687. It?s the same and proven bullet-proof lock-up as the 686, but with a finer grade finish.
                            I like the way you think. Life is too short to shoot an ugly gun.
                            ...while the buffoon in the White House prances around celebrating butt sex.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              donalli
                              Member
                              • May 2020
                              • 161

                              OP just fly to dallas,go to the Beretta store and the nice folks there will measure you for a custom fitted gun and ship it to CA.

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