Defense Shotgun for Mom

[Den60]

Has your mom fired a 20g or a 12g? Because it's a big step up from a .410

You should take her to a range and rent both a 20g and a 12g. Have her fire a box of birdshot with each gun and then a box of 00 Buck with each gun.

If she's still on board with this idea after that, then you can start looking around at specific guns and decide between pumps and semi-autos.

Two other ideas if the shotgun is too much for her...

1) A pistol caliber carbine

2) A lever gun in .357 or 30-30 if she'd rather have a rifle caliber.

I have a 12 gauge she can fire. It will be too long for her, however. I have no problem with her using a 410 but I want her to have more rounds.

[Den60]

I understand completely. I think so often we see the capabilities of seniors, especially relatives like Moms and Das through different eyes, it's hard to accept diminishing capabilities. I went through very similar what you described right down to the response time for LE.

Introducing a new firearm is way more than a few hours of familiarization, at that age there has to be reinforcement on a regular basis and heck, a majority of the people 40 years younger than her aren't doing it.

I read some of the comments and while the choices are good are they really good choices for your Mom? I mean, extended magazines, 9mm Carbines and the semi-auto shotguns. For you, me and those recommending them? Probably great. This is for someone 86 years old and while like your Mom, from work hardened and self reliant stock, she's still alone and is living gravy and now comes some new gun?

I can relate to you what we did. It's an entire family affair and while there might be just one or two who take active interest, it's time for people to open their wallets a bit even if their mouths remain shut.

Where do you see her living in just a few years when she's 90? Can you see her handling some semi-auto shotgun? While some might be able, do you think she would? That becomes your gap of assistance needed and the time for which some resources ($) can get someone there as a property hand. It isn't easy and often falls into the hands of one or maybe two family members as you've probably discovered.

I'd speak to what local LE there is because a lot of them accept side jobs to provide services. Someone to stop by a few times a week on a random basis, it will cost a few bucks but so what, reality says it isn't forever or even a really long time. They show in uniform and just their face let people know this isn't the place. We did that and it wasn't all that expensive and provided if nothing else, a little peace of mind - just a little but worth every penny.

There were two of us and it meant one was closer and could stop by more often but it also meant one of us was making long trips (talking two days one way) to spend a couple of days there. That isn't practical for everyone I know but sometimes you gotta just figure it out. People have jobs and other responsibilities, I get it. It's Mom though.

Declines happen quickly at that age, a fall, some illness or just age related stuff and that semi-auto shotgun or Mini-14/AR this or that isn't likely to make any difference some revolver she already has can't handle. She isn't running, jumping and clearing rooms, people forget what this is all about and they see through their eyes of training, far greater physical abilities.

She's closing on 87 and 90 pounds and from all that has been said it seems that was the first thing forgotten. 86+ and 90 pounds, people need to really think about what that means, tough lady or not. She isn't about to deal with a gun 5-10% of her total body weight.

I hope the best for you and her. I just see (just from your OP) that now is not the time to introduce some new gun and then go down the road of the training needed to get to proficiency and just as important, maintain that proficiency because we maybe decades younger see it as no big deal. It is a big deal.

I really appreciate this post, thank you!

The more I think about it, the more I'd like her to get a 410 semiauto shotgun. She can use that for snakes as well, just to keep proficiency since he takes out snakes routinely.

At some point she needs to move into town. She is adamant that she will never go in a nursing home and we would never suggest this for her. My dad, despite being dirt poor when he came to San Diego from Canada, did very well for her, my brother and I. She has plenty of money but lives frugally. She drives a 20+ year old Lexus even though me and my brother tell her she needs a new car.

There are times where she talks about moving but she is still emotionally tied to the house my Dad built for her. Where she lives, the Border Patrol is more apt to respond quickly rather than the Sheriff. She has a relationship with the BP and they have always been great in response. Yeah, they used to come by a lot, the creek bed in front of her property being a well known collection point for illegals and their coyotes. Because of Biden's stupid border policies the local agents are overworked, under appreciated, and have low morale.

She is stubborn, just like her dad was. He was on the Lady Lex when it went down on May 8, 1942. He was a senior chief at that time. She lived through that. Her mom worked through the ombudsman office and routinely was at the Chollas Lake radio station and was there when news of the Pearl Harbor atack came through. Working with the Ombudsman's office, she often was given "black envelope" communications. It was her job to go and inform wives or mother's that they husband or son was killed. She would have to stay there until family or clergy arrived. Always thought that was why she died in her 50s when I was 9.

[Den60]

Alot more expensive than a shotgun, a trained protection dog would be my first choice

She has a Rottie. Brining another dog in right now is problematic. The Rottie is a rescue (likely abused when young) and doesn't socialize well. Heck, even I worry a bit when I go out to visit. My Mom has said that if she dies, she wants her Rottie to be put to sleep because he wouldn't adapt to another owner.

[NATEWA]

https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-...26in/p/1698186

Play to her strength. 410 semi auto, cut the barrel and stock. If mag extension available, add it. Hornady Triple defense loads with 3 pellets.

I guess the 20g I recommended was a bit much.

[Gundiver]

[W.R.Buchanan]

What kind of Semi Auto ..410 are you talking about? It's not like they grow on trees. There is a limited selection of .410 auto Loaders

Mossberg makes one that is reasonably priced,$700

https://www.mossberg.com/product/sa-410-field-75796/

And Remington makes this one in .410 This one is more $

https://www.remarms.com/shotguns/autoloading/model-1100/model-1100-sporting-series

And that's about it, both of these guns are in the 7 lb. + range and from what I'm reading above this may be too much for her to cart around, or she could get a small Golf Cart to tote her gun around with some water and other stuff she might need.

My Sporting Clays Gun Cart weighs almost nothing and anyone could pull it around. The tool bag on the bottom is for ammo and other stuff and keeps the cart from tipping over backwards.



This might be a good way for her to tote a heavier gun around.

All that said:

In any event with things the way they are right now I would insist that she come and live with me in town. Just because,,, if she isn't willing to kill someone, then she would become the victim, and that should be unacceptable! Stubborn or Not! It doesn't matter what kind of gun you've got , if you aren't willing to use it, then chances are it will get used on you!

Things are changing rapidly in this country and Desperate People coming from places where a human life is worth just about nothing are not something you want to confront alone. Especially if you are 86 years old and weigh 95 lbs!

I am sorry, but we can talk guns and dogs until the cows come home but the the real common sense solution here is to get her away from that place. She is in more danger every day she stays there, because things are changing rapidly every day. In case you haven't heard there are 18,000+ people coming across the southern border EVERY DAY and they expect that to increase exponentially.

Sir: You really need to talk some sense into her and today, Easter Sunday, would be a good time to do it.

Randy

[JagerDog]

If she can shoot a rifle I'd say go that way. She'd have the advantage of more firepower and less to no recoil.

A Mini 14 would be good or a Kel-Tec SU16 would be lighter and probably more easy for her to wield.

The biggest problem I see is her lack of meaningful training. Whatever gun you choose for her she needs to get trained on how to run it and use it effectively.

With a Semi Auto Rifle that means Loading unloading Aiming and shooting multiple targets... All this could be done by you at her home. A Red Dot sight on the gun would simplify the shooting part as all you'd have to teach her would be put the dot on the target and pull the trigger. No sight alignment to fool with just Dot Bang !

I don't see a Shotgun being as good a weapon for her as a rifle. And you know I'd love to see her using a Shotgun, but simply because a 12 ga. is probably too much for her, and the distances and areas she'd need to control are mostly outside of shotgun range. And a 20 ga is even more limited.

I also don't see a PCC as being a good choice for the same reasons as the shotguns. PCC's are 100 yard guns, and a 9MM at 100 yards is just about useless. Even a .40 S&W wouldn't be all that great.

However a .223 is, and therefore a Mini 14 or Kel-Tec would be a better choice,,, As long as you can teach her how to use it. If she isn't willing to learn how to effectively protect herself in her environment, I say kidnap her and drag her to the city or whatever it takes.!!!

One other thing. You need to spot signs all along her fence lines saying "Trespassers WILL BE SHOT" in English, Spanish, Portuguese, Chinese, Arabic, Farsi, and so on,,,, and then have her go out and shoot the gun every day for several months so anyone watching/casing her property would know there are guns there and they are being used. Thus dissuading them from using her property as a corridor.

You can tell her she doesn't have to hit them unless they are shooting back but just shooting close to them should turn them around! If they shoot back she needs to be willing to kill them or all of this is pointless.

Randy

She's not defending the Alamo. Why would she be shooting BG's at 100 yards?

PCC is still a good choice. So is a 20g Beretta A300 with short (youth) stock and barrel.

Or even 28 gauge with some TSS shells. Small shot that out penetrates buckshot.

[k1dude]

I wouldn't get her a semi-auto shotgun. At 86, it's likely going to be too heavy and too hard to learn the manual of arms. Old people don't learn as easily as they did when they were younger. That's probably why she wants to hang onto her old Lexus. It's familiar and she doesn't have to think to operate it. She probably wants to stay in her home for the same reason. She knows where everything is, even in the dark. She even knows all the sounds the old house makes. That's comforting and familiar to her.

When my father was aging, if we took him to our house he would become confused. When we took him back home, he went right back to being normal. He also couldn't drive any car but his own truck that he had for decades. Later when he became demented, even though he thought he was in a nursing home and we were the employees, he knew exactly where everything was. Knowing where the bathroom and kitchen are when you're old and demented is a huge deal.

I really like the idea of the 4.7 pound Kel-Tec SU16CA, but that's a mag fed semi-auto. So once again, it would be too challenging for her to learn the manual of arms and become proficient.

That's why I recommended the 3.3 pound Yildiz side-by-side in .410. It works exactly like her single shot .410, but has 2 shots instead of 1. It also likely weighs less than her single shot. You could even cut the barrels down from 28" to 20" and cut the stock down for her petite size. That would make one heckuva handy shotgun that she could handle very well. It would probably then weigh 3 pounds. I would even consider the same shotgun in 12 gauge if she uses Aguila or Federal 1-3/4" mini shell buckshot.

[W.R.Buchanan]

She's not defending the Alamo. Why would she be shooting BG's at 100 yards?

PCC is still a good choice. So is a 20g Beretta A300 with short (youth) stock and barrel.

Or even 28 gauge with some TSS shells. Small shot that out penetrates buckshot.

What difference does it make? She shouldn't be defending anything! She should be living in town with her son, Where she lives is just too dangerous right now.

I wouldn't live where she does and I AM WILLING to KILL SOMEONE if I deem it necessary. She has no Tactical Training which would include when and what to shoot and why.

Like I said above we can talk guns and dogs all we want but none of it matters if she isn't willing to kill someone. She's not going to shoot them, and just wounding them is worse as it opens the Liability Door.

Best way to avoid a gunfight is to avoid it altogether by moving.

Today would be a good day to have a real good talk with her. It doesn't matter how sentimental her attachment to her home is.

It ain't worth dyin' for!

Randy

[JagerDog]

What difference does it make? She shouldn't be defending anything! She should be living in town with her son, Where she lives is just too dangerous right now.

I wouldn't live where she does and I AM WILLING to KILL SOMEONE if I deem it necessary. She has no Tactical Training which would include when and what to shoot and why.

Like I said above we can talk guns and dogs all we want but none of it matters if she isn't willing to kill someone. She's not going to shoot them, and just wounding them is worse as it opens the Liability Door.

Best way to avoid a gunfight is to avoid it altogether by moving.

Today would be a good day to have a real good talk with her. It doesn't matter how sentimental her attachment to her home is.

It ain't worth dyin' for!

Randy

Hey, you were the one touting 100 yard capability being a deciding factor of firearm. Sometimes your "firefight" scenarios crack me up.

I have a different concept of life/living.

I'd rather die where I want to live. I'm not going to expedite my death by say living alone when I'm not able, but she sounds able. She's still killing snakes and has neighbors she can depend on. She's got a Rottie. She's earned her choices.

People die of violence, accidents, etc. in town all the time. Why would I assume she's "safer" in town? Does OP have a "compound" with security and mom can just stay inside, have groceries delivered and watch TV? I think she'd consider that being next to death.

[Cowboy T]

Gentlemen, remember that it's *her* decision where to live, not ours. At 86 years old, she can tell any of us to STFU if she pleases. And she lived through Pearl Harbor? Yeah, her word is law on this one. She's in her Golden Years now and it's entirely her call.

OP, nothing wrong with giving her a bunch of options, since she's open to the idea of a new firearm to complement what she has. Whatever it is, she's got to feel comfortable with it.

BTW, I couldn't help but notice you said she has a 20-year-old Lexus. My wife drives a 22-year-old Mercedes-Benz and I drive 28-year-old Honda Civic (I maintain both). Ain't nothin' wrong with 20-year-old cars as long as you continue to take proper care of them. Where she lives, there are no road salt issues, so her car should be good to go for a very long time to come.

[Omil]

Keep the .410, get better loads.

[sigstroker]

PC Carbine in .40 is the ticket, although 9mm would do the job too. Ideally one with an adjustable stock that you can adjust before you pin it. Either that or see if she can handle a featureless grip.

Or, if you have to build a PCC, get a side-charging Gibbz upper for ease of loading. That would allow you to set the length of pull when it's still not a complete gun yet.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Hey, you were the one touting 100 yard capability being a deciding factor of firearm. Sometimes your "firefight" scenarios crack me up.

I have a different concept of life/living.

I'd rather die where I want to live. I'm not going to expedite my death by say living alone when I'm not able, but she sounds able. She's still killing snakes and has neighbors she can depend on. She's got a Rottie. She's earned her choices.

People die of violence, accidents, etc. in town all the time. Why would I assume she's "safer" in town? Does OP have a "compound" with security and mom can just stay inside, have groceries delivered and watch TV? I think she'd consider that being next to death.

It really doesn't matter what "WE" think. She's not my Mom, or yours. All we can do is offer up suggestions, and don't even need to know if they are accepted or not.

All I'm saying is that the border is too dangerous right now. Too much Traffic of people we shouldn't be letting in here. I'd say the Bad outweighs the Good by about 10:1, but like I said, it's not our call.

Randy

[SoftHeart]

"She gets illegals through her property routinely. She had one come to her door on Sunday asking to charge his phone. Her Rottweiler was with her and was going wild. The guy finally left and she called a neighbor who came down with his son armed with ARs.".........


That was a "jailhouse" move by a stone thief, and I'm glad your mom made it through that. Obviously anybody trying to make it here isn't stopping anywhere to charge his/her phone.


The BS excuse to try to gain entry into the house while she's at home was very bad, real bad.

i may be wrong, but sounds like he knocked on the door to see who if anybody answers, and then tries to get in the house, but you sound like you were on to that.

Again I may be wrong but it sounds like she doesn't want to leave the memory of your Dad.

We had the sweetest lady in the world around here, Mrs. Glover, 103 yrs. old, a treasure. Daughters from Texas get power of attorney and tell her they're taking her back w/them to Texas. She died a month after they made her move. Older folks have a tendency not to argue which doesn't mean they don't want to do something.


Beside the issue of trying come up w/something for her, do you have any relatives who're gunowners who might want to take care of the property for her? Or maybe working out something w/the neighbors to look in on her/be on the lookout.

A lot of older folks just don't want to move, even if it might be the best choice.

I hope this turns out ok for U.


BTW: Does she belong to a church? Mrs. Glover was very close to other members of her church and they made a point of coming around often/staying w/her for long periods of time/doing things around the house for her. Mrs. Glover trusted them snce they were members of her church. These were church going folks who were also gunowners.