Defense Shotgun for Mom

[Den60]

https://www.riflegear.com/p-11575-rossi-circuit-judge-45lc410-185-barrel-synthetic-stock.aspx

Her 410 is just a single shot. She does have heavier loads for it. I thought about the Henry 410 lever action shotgun. Again, she was missing her target with the 410 and a former neighbor saw that the butt was too long so he shortened it. That is why I'd like an adjustable stock.

Again, she says the recoil of the 410 is "nothing." She kills about 10 or so snakes a year with it.

[Den60]

Go to a gunstore and rack a glock G34. It's pretty easy to rack.
See what you think and maybe you could then bring her to the store to see if she could rack it.
Or get one and leave it racked.

After Easter she is coming in to town and we'll be going to Discount Gun Mart in Santee. They have some guns to rent and you can shoot shotguns in their range. She has told me that she is very comfortable with a shotgun which is why I'm leaning towards that for her.

[Den60]

If she can shoot a rifle I'd say go that way. She'd have the advantage of more firepower and less to no recoil.

A Mini 14 would be good or a Kel-Tec SU16 would be lighter and probably more easy for her to wield.

The biggest problem I see is her lack of meaningful training. Whatever gun you choose for her she needs to get trained on how to run it and use it effectively.

With a Semi Auto Rifle that means Loading unloading Aiming and shooting multiple targets... All this could be done by you at her home. A Red Dot sight on the gun would simplify the shooting part as all you'd have to teach her would be put the dot on the target and pull the trigger. No sight alignment to fool with just Dot Bang !

I don't see a Shotgun being as good a weapon for her as a rifle. And you know I'd love to see her using a Shotgun, but simply because a 12 ga. is probably too much for her, and the distances and areas she'd need to control are mostly outside of shotgun range. And a 20 ga is even more limited.

I also don't see a PCC as being a good choice for the same reasons as the shotguns. PCC's are 100 yard guns, and a 9MM at 100 yards is just about useless. Even a .40 S&W wouldn't be all that great.

However a .223 is, and therefore a Mini 14 or Kel-Tec would be a better choice,,, As long as you can teach her how to use it. If she isn't willing to learn how to effectively protect herself in her environment, I say kidnap her and drag her to the city or whatever it takes.!!!

One other thing. You need to spot signs all along her fence lines saying "Trespassers WILL BE SHOT" in English, Spanish, Portuguese, Chinese, Arabic, Farsi, and so on,,,, and then have her go out and shoot the gun every day for several months so anyone watching/casing her property would know there are guns there and they are being used. Thus dissuading them from using her property as a corridor.

You can tell her she doesn't have to hit them unless they are shooting back but just shooting close to them should turn them around! If they shoot back she needs to be willing to kill them or all of this is pointless.

Randy

She would only be shooting if someone gets inside her house. She ain't going outside to take anyone down on the property. Where she lives, she dials 911 and she might see someone in 30 minutes. Border Patrol used to get there very quickly but they are overworked and demoralized (thanks democrats) nowadays. I told her to say the next time she has to call to tell them she has a gun (not weapon) and she is ready to shoot.

Again, the adjustable stock is important. At best she was 5'3" in her prime. That rules out the Mini-14. I thought about an AR for her but she liked the idea of a shotgun better, since she is familiar with them.

As for signs. This last guy I don't think it would have mattered. This guy came up to her door and her 90 lb Rottie was going ballistic and he didn't seem bothered by that. That dog has snapped at me a couple of time (rescue and doesn't like men who wear hats) and she scares me.

I plan on having her train with Bill Desy here in town.

[Den60]

Been there and going there again.

At 86 she might need more than a shotgun, she might (and I stress "might") need someone else around since being in a rural area, alone places here at a great disadvantage. The Rotti is good but can't replace someone else.

Is there any opportunity for family to live there? Maybe someone who works remotely, a student of age, a close friend who is compatible?

I mention this because all the great recommendations for this or that shotgun seem nice except the reality of the situation is that often the seniors are seen as being far more capable than they really are, especially when alone, with no help close and caught by those will ill intent in a situation where they can't get to said shotgun.

It's unlikely she'll walk around the property carrying a shotgun all the time and those who would seek to impose themselves have the opportunity to watch for even a short time to realize she is alone.

It can be monumental effort to get seniors to acknowledge their vulnerabilities, they often see it as taking away their independence and to top that off, there is a real emotional and sentimental attachment to that house; you're unlikely to overcome that.

Some people at 86 are vibrant and capable but still, you're talking about training and what happens as is quite possible, memory fades a little, reflexes slow more? Now she's going to deal with new guns when that might even seem more of a burden than just doing what she's doing now? Put yourself in her shoes.

Just a thought, I'd start putting up cameras, a first rate monitored security system, repair or upgrade any barrier fencing (without the prison theme) and at the very least, frequent but random appearing visits where someone might stay a day or two. that can be inconvenient, but she is 86 and gave her family a lot in those years.

Guns are the final resort but before that comes a lot of other things to create a much better and more secure environment without making it intrusive on her routine.

JIMO.

.

She has had people who have lived on her property (barn has a studio apartment) but she has been hit and miss with finding reliable people. She doesn't wander the property but goes down to feed her horses in the early evening.

She does have cameras and will be adding some more lighting. Yes, she has the same security system I have in my home and business, monitored. Alarm goes off and your phone is ringing within 30 seconds. Her neighbor above her is a USN officer from Guatemala who serves on CVN 72. He lives with his teenage son and mother and he keeps an eye out on her. When she goes to feed her horses he will come outside. He came down armed with his son on Sunday. Good people.

Both me and my brother have tried to encourage her to move into town, downsize to a small house. Sometimes she thinks about it, but she is tied to this house. Again, my Dad built it for her and passed away there in 2015.

She does not live in fear, she comes from tough stock.

[Den60]

Actually, for this application, a Winchester 92 (or copy) in .357 Magnum might also be a good choice. The .357M round has considerably more power when shot out of a rifle vs. a 4" to 6" barrel of a revolver. Recoil is not at all severe, even with full-house loads. Effective range is about 100 or so yards, which should be just fine for self-defense purposes.

Question: when you say she has a .38 SW revolver, do you mean the .38 S&W cartridge chambering, or do you mean a S&W revolver in .38 Special? If the latter, then the advantage of a .357M lever-action rifle is that she can also shoot her .38 Special rounds out of it. I do this frequently with our Rossi 92.

The Mini-14 is another low-recoil option. If you can get some "Freedom Week" standard 20-rounders, so much the better.

Might it be a good idea to ask her what she wants? Maybe she would like a bigger shotgun; maybe she might prefer a rifle of some sort. If she can shoot a 20-gauge shotgun, then that's certainly not a bad option. I've shot an older Winchester 20-gauge pump before, and the recoil is considerably tamer than that of the 12-gauge.

Just a .38, not a .38 Special. My grandfather bought it in the 60s and I had to post a picture on here to figure out what it was.

I've spoken with her quite a bit about what she is comfortable with. When I spoke about an AR she wasn't that interested. When I mentioned a shotgun she said "I could go for that." Again, she has been using one for snakes for some 40 years.

[larkja]

86 year old, under 100 lbs, would not recommend a 20 gauge. Those can still kick pretty good. If she's competent with the .410, I would suggest a semi auto for reduced felt recoil. Or, you could also go with a 28 gauge. Depends on availability.

[L84CABO]

Has your mom fired a 20g or a 12g? Because it's a big step up from a .410

You should take her to a range and rent both a 20g and a 12g. Have her fire a box of birdshot with each gun and then a box of 00 Buck with each gun.

If she's still on board with this idea after that, then you can start looking around at specific guns and decide between pumps and semi-autos.

Two other ideas if the shotgun is too much for her...

1) A pistol caliber carbine

2) A lever gun in .357 or 30-30 if she'd rather have a rifle caliber.

[SharedShots]

She has had people who have lived on her property (barn has a studio apartment) but she has been hit and miss with finding reliable people. She doesn't wander the property but goes down to feed her horses in the early evening.

She does have cameras and will be adding some more lighting. Yes, she has the same security system I have in my home and business, monitored. Alarm goes off and your phone is ringing within 30 seconds. Her neighbor above her is a USN officer from Guatemala who serves on CVN 72. He lives with his teenage son and mother and he keeps an eye out on her. When she goes to feed her horses he will come outside. He came down armed with his son on Sunday. Good people.

Both me and my brother have tried to encourage her to move into town, downsize to a small house. Sometimes she thinks about it, but she is tied to this house. Again, my Dad built it for her and passed away there in 2015.

She does not live in fear, she comes from tough stock.

I understand completely. I think so often we see the capabilities of seniors, especially relatives like Moms and Das through different eyes, it's hard to accept diminishing capabilities. I went through very similar what you described right down to the response time for LE.

Introducing a new firearm is way more than a few hours of familiarization, at that age there has to be reinforcement on a regular basis and heck, a majority of the people 40 years younger than her aren't doing it.

I read some of the comments and while the choices are good are they really good choices for your Mom? I mean, extended magazines, 9mm Carbines and the semi-auto shotguns. For you, me and those recommending them? Probably great. This is for someone 86 years old and while like your Mom, from work hardened and self reliant stock, she's still alone and is living gravy and now comes some new gun?

I can relate to you what we did. It's an entire family affair and while there might be just one or two who take active interest, it's time for people to open their wallets a bit even if their mouths remain shut.

Where do you see her living in just a few years when she's 90? Can you see her handling some semi-auto shotgun? While some might be able, do you think she would? That becomes your gap of assistance needed and the time for which some resources ($) can get someone there as a property hand. It isn't easy and often falls into the hands of one or maybe two family members as you've probably discovered.

I'd speak to what local LE there is because a lot of them accept side jobs to provide services. Someone to stop by a few times a week on a random basis, it will cost a few bucks but so what, reality says it isn't forever or even a really long time. They show in uniform and just their face let people know this isn't the place. We did that and it wasn't all that expensive and provided if nothing else, a little peace of mind - just a little but worth every penny.

There were two of us and it meant one was closer and could stop by more often but it also meant one of us was making long trips (talking two days one way) to spend a couple of days there. That isn't practical for everyone I know but sometimes you gotta just figure it out. People have jobs and other responsibilities, I get it. It's Mom though.

Declines happen quickly at that age, a fall, some illness or just age related stuff and that semi-auto shotgun or Mini-14/AR this or that isn't likely to make any difference some revolver she already has can't handle. She isn't running, jumping and clearing rooms, people forget what this is all about and they see through their eyes of training, far greater physical abilities.

She's closing on 87 and 90 pounds and from all that has been said it seems that was the first thing forgotten. 86+ and 90 pounds, people need to really think about what that means, tough lady or not. She isn't about to deal with a gun 5-10% of her total body weight.

I hope the best for you and her. I just see (just from your OP) that now is not the time to introduce some new gun and then go down the road of the training needed to get to proficiency and just as important, maintain that proficiency because we maybe decades younger see it as no big deal. It is a big deal.

[Cowboy T]

OP, I see your point. In that case, I'm thinking have her try a 20-gauge pump, then, since A.) she's already familiar with shotguns, and B.) pump shotguns are the most reliable repeater shotguns that there is. If she can handle the 20-gauge and likes it, then you're all set.

[k1dude]

Her 410 is just a single shot. She does have heavier loads for it. I thought about the Henry 410 lever action shotgun. Again, she was missing her target with the 410 and a former neighbor saw that the butt was too long so he shortened it. That is why I'd like an adjustable stock.

The Henry is simple to cut the stock down since it's wood.

[k1dude]

How about a Yildiz .410 side-by-side that weighs 3.3 pounds? Easy to operate, light to carry and manipulate, and only about $450.

2 shots is better than 1.

[NATEWA]

https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/shotguns/charles-daly-honcho-tactical-triple-black-410ga-3in-break-open-firearm-185in/p/1625263

3 is better than 2

[BucDan]

https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/shotguns/mossberg-sa-410-turkey-mossy-oak-bottomland-410-3in-semi-automatic-shotgun-26in/p/1698186

Play to her strength. 410 semi auto, cut the barrel and stock. If mag extension available, add it. Hornady Triple defense loads with 3 pellets.

I guess the 20g I recommended was a bit much.

[Slow]

By coincidence I shot a 86 year old's Weatherby SA-08 20 just this week. Was a real soft shooter and wasn't heavy at all.

I think it's the same gun as the Mossberg SA-20 (which BucDan recommended). With the right load it'd put a hurt on anyone that tried to force their way into her home.

[vpravada]

Alot more expensive than a shotgun, a trained protection dog would be my first choice