Remington 870 wingmaster barrel question

[crazy]

"... Hi Mark."


^^^ For the win.

LOL. Glad I had finished my coffee.

The barrel was offered to me for $100. That seems fair.

[870classic]

Sounds like a "Great price."
Pick it up. Worst case you can resell it or cut it down to 18.5".

Best regards,
870classic.

[crazy]

It's also a vented Barrel. I'm going to get it.

[NapalmCheese]

NO. All other things being equal, full choke will not give you more range, but it will give you tighter patterns at any given range. The pellets will slow down and fall out of the sky at the same distance from the muzzle, regardless of choke. The full choke just keeps the pellets closer together.

Well, if we're going to be pedantic about it...

Does the full choke give you more range? Yes and no.

Pellets fall out of the sky regardless of the choke through which they were fired. As the ballistic coefficient of the pellet goes up, the range at which it remains lethal to things like birds increases. Since killing things with a shotgun requires both penetration AND pattern, a full choke can absolutely increase the range at which a given gun is lethal to certain game provided the pellets are up to the task. If the pellets are not up to the task then no.

[Ducky's Dad]

Does the full choke give you more range? Yes and no.

Perhaps you failed to note that I said "all other other things being equal." A #8 pellet out of a cylinder choke will have the same kinetic energy as one fired through a full choke. At any given range that single pellet will impart the same energy to the target, regardless of choke. A full choke will put more pellets on the target at any given range, but it will not affect the distance the pellets travel. In fact, it will likely shorten the distance that some pellets travel because of bore scrubbing and pellet deformation as the charge is forced through the constriction. Deformed pellets are not as aerodynamically efficient as perfectly round pellets and lose velocity more rapidly. Can also create flyers and blown patterns. Not an issue with steel and most tungsten loads, but those have other issues with tight chokes.

As the ballistic coefficient of the pellet goes up, the range at which it remains lethal to things like birds increases.

That ignores the "all other things being equal" part of my earlier response. Sure, a #4 lead pellet is more lethal than a #8 pellet at any given effective range, but you won't have as many pellets in your shot charge and thus there will be bigger holes in your pattern. Also more bore scrubbing and deformation with bigger pellets. You can reduce bore scrubbing and pellet deformation by choosing different shot cups. Or you can eliminate shot cups to open the pattern. Everything is a trade off. Choose your choke and your load to fit your game.

Pedantic? Me? Nah.

[NapalmCheese]

All things being equal, if someone is currently shooting #6 ITX 13 from a skeet choke, switching to a full choke will increase their effective range.

Perhaps you failed to note that I said "all other other things being equal." A #8 pellet out of a cylinder choke will have the same kinetic energy as one fired through a full choke. At any given range that single pellet will impart the same energy to the target, regardless of choke. A full choke will put more pellets on the target at any given range, but it will not affect the distance the pellets travel. In fact, it will likely shorten the distance that some pellets travel because of bore scrubbing and pellet deformation as the charge is forced through the constriction. Deformed pellets are not as aerodynamically efficient as perfectly round pellets and lose velocity more rapidly. Can also create flyers and blown patterns. Not an issue with steel and most tungsten loads, but those have other issues with tight chokes.


That ignores the "all other things being equal" part of my earlier response. Sure, a #4 lead pellet is more lethal than a #8 pellet at any given effective range, but you won't have as many pellets in your shot charge and thus there will be bigger holes in your pattern. Also more bore scrubbing and deformation with bigger pellets. You can reduce bore scrubbing and pellet deformation by choosing different shot cups. Or you can eliminate shot cups to open the pattern. Everything is a trade off. Choose your choke and your load to fit your game.

Pedantic? Me? Nah.

[Ducky's Dad]

All things being equal, if someone is currently shooting #6 ITX 13 from a skeet choke, switching to a full choke will increase their effective range.

Pellets will fly the same distance at the same velocity from either choke. The full choke will just keep the pellets closer together. ITX, lead, steel, bismuth, etc., makes no difference. Choose your choke to fit your game.

And OP's question seemed to relate to barrel length rather than to choke constriction. He may have been thinking about longer gas burn/higher pressures in the longer barrel contributing to higher muzzle velocity and more range.

I figure the 30 will give a little more range. No?

[NapalmCheese]

Pellets will fly the same distance at the same velocity from either choke. The full choke will just keep the pellets closer together. ITX, lead, steel, bismuth, etc., makes no difference. Choose your choke to fit your game.

And a tighter choke in that instance will allow you to have better pattern density after further ranges where very dense pellets still have lethal amounts of energy.

And OP's question seemed to relate to barrel length rather than to choke constriction. He may have been thinking about longer gas burn/higher pressures in the longer barrel contributing to higher muzzle velocity and more range.

No matter. What we can say is Without Loss Of Generality what I said was correct. WLOG the same thing can't be said for your statement since edge cases and boundary conditions (and we'll see later common cases) cause it to be false. While the OP referenced 30 inches in their post about it potentially offering more range, that could very well just be a method of referring to the full choke barrel (since the full choke barrel is a 30 inch barrel, and their current barrel is a 28 inch barrel with a mod choke). So we don't know if the OP thinks the longer barrel will provide more range, or if the full choke will provide more range; but it doesn't matter since we know the barrel length does nothing to increase range and because, WLOG the full choke barrel CAN provide a lethal pattern of lethal pellets further out than their mod choked barrel. And IF the OP is currently using dense pellets (including larger lead) it almost certainly will provide a lethal pattern of lethal pellets at further ranges than their 28 inch barrel (assuming the full choke is in fact tighter than their current mod choke). So that all things being equal switching to the full choke barrel MIGHT provide more range (because we don't know what the OP is shooting for ammo), and WLOG you simply can't say it WON'T provide extended range (because we don't know what the OP will be shooting for ammo).

If instead we control for external variables and say that in this one specific instance the OP is shooting #3 steel for ducks we can finally say that NO, the 30 inch full choke barrel won't extend the lethal range of the gun/ammo combination.

However, if we control for external variables and say that in this one specific instance the OP is shooting #5 Sphero Tungsten 18 g/cc shot at turkeys, YES the 30 inch full choke barrel will extend the lethal range of the gun/ammo combination by providing a more lethal pattern of pellets with lethal amounts of energy at further ranges.

So how about something in the middle? If we take shooting North Dakota pheasants and we listen to Randy Wakeman assuming 1.5 inches of penetration into gel is enough for a pellet to be lethal to a pheasant (https://www.randywakeman.com/SteelLe...Shotshells.htm), then a #5 pellet started at 1330 fps (something like Federal's H126-5 Game Load Upland Hi-Brass 12 gauge in 2-3/4 inch) retains enough momentum to be lethal to a pheasant to 67.8 yards. Will a mod choke have enough pattern to reliably put more than a single pellet in that birds vitals at that distance? No, it won't. I don't think a full choke would either, but to be certain; a full choke would hold a lethal pattern of lead #5s further than a mod choke within the range of the pellets being lethal.

So, to answer:

I figure the 30 will give a little more range. No?

simply with:

NO

Is not reliably correct.

Where as "Since killing things with a shotgun requires both penetration AND pattern, a full choke can absolutely increase the range at which a given gun is lethal to certain game provided the pellets are up to the task." is reliably correct in all instances (barring slugs and dumb luck), WLOG.

This post was brought to you by pedantry and "not exactly science".

[crazy]

I picked it up a few days ago. Thanks for the help.

[870classic]

Fantastic. Enjoy the new barrel.

Best regards,
870classic.