Benelli M4 is illegal right?

[thekwyjibo]

According to ATF, the M4 has 11 listed parts and hence you need to replace only one(1) to be in 922(r) compliance. The extension is not a listed part, so it doesn't matter where the extension is made, what matters is that you replace one of the 11 listed parts with a US made one.

I suspect you are referring to the information that started from AR15.com, it is not actually correct anymore. The DOJ apparently realised that they had made a mistake and have since updated their list. The response that I received from them came back with a list of 13 parts for an M4.

The list as of 10/6 is as follows:
Receiver
Barrel
Bolt
Bolt Carrier
Gas Piston (they are treating the double piston as a single item)
Trigger housing
Trigger
Hammer
Disconnector
Buttstock
Forearm
Magazine Body(s)
Follower

They clearly state that the Pistol grip is considered part of the stock as the rubber wraparound is a gripping surface not a grip in and of itself. (this is NOT true of the m4 1014, the one with the telescoping stock that was forced fixed, that one has 14 parts).

Either way, I would shoot of a letter to the federal DOJ before making any modifications in case you run into someone who questions the gun's legality.

[allenst65]

The only laws regulating the Benelli M4 are the Federal importation laws...

If it's a semi-automatic shotgun with a capacity of up to five rounds, it can be imported with a pistol grip. You can't add a 7 round extension to it without removing the pistol grip.

Can you direct us to a specific document number, subsection, etc which explicitly calls out this point? I want to see the exact doc which calls out a semi-auto, pistol gripped shotgun with mag capacity over 5 rounds as being 'non-sporting'.

I know regular stocked, imported semi-auto shotguns with >5 rnd mags are sold in every shop so the only hold-up would have to be the pistol grip. If so, simple installing a standard stock on an M4 would discount any need to worry about part counts and finding US made pistons, etc.

[gose]

Can you direct us to a specific document number, subsection, etc which explicitly calls out this point? I want to see the exact doc which calls out a semi-auto, pistol gripped shotgun with mag capacity over 5 rounds as being 'non-sporting'.

I know regular stocked, imported semi-auto shotguns with >5 rnd mags are sold in every shop so the only hold-up would have to be the pistol grip. If so, simple installing a standard stock on an M4 would discount any need to worry about part counts and finding US made pistons, etc.

The number five is mentioned in 922(?), but I don't think there are any official points on what constitutes a non-sporting firearm. AFAIK it's up to ATF to deem a rifle/shotgun sporting/non-sporting.
If the M4 has been deemed to be a non-sporting shotgun and therefor being limited to 5 rounds, simply changing the stock will probably not make it sporting. I would not want to do this without a letter from ATF.
Looks like the previous letter from ATF was wrong, and your list is correct.
I know there are US made forearms and followers, so now we need to find someone who can produce one of the other parts...

[Josh]

The number five is mentioned in 922(?), but I don't think there are any official points on what constitutes a non-sporting firearm. AFAIK it's up to ATF to deem a rifle/shotgun sporting/non-sporting.
If the M4 has been deemed to be a non-sporting shotgun and therefor being limited to 5 rounds, simply changing the stock will probably not make it sporting. I would not want to do this without a letter from ATF.
Looks like the previous letter from ATF was wrong, and your list is correct.
I know there are US made forearms and followers, so now we need to find someone who can produce one of the other parts...

922r

yup, its atf discretion as to what is sporting and non sporting.

[Spawn_X]

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=29382

[gose]

There is a guy over at the benelli forums selling a US made full-length replacement mag tube. That together with a new follower and a new forearm should be enough, even with the "new" list
Assuming you don't put on a foreign made extension, because then you're back to 11 parts...

[E__WOK]

Not entirely true. You only need to replace one part to be in compliance with 922(r), so a new follower, mag body or forearm (Made in the US) will get you to 10 parts and you can then enjoy your mag extension and pistol grip.

When did this law come into effect?

[thekwyjibo]

There is a guy over at the benelli forums selling a US made full-length replacement mag tube. That together with a new follower and a new forearm should be enough, even with the "new" list
Assuming you don't put on a foreign made extension, because then you're back to 11 parts...

Actually the law states that you have to have 10parts or less from the list but you would have to replace the entire magazine with one of the full length replacement tubes (not just add an extension, so long as the entire magazine were replaced (and forend and follower) then you would have compliance (10 imported parts). if you were to use an extension you would have to replace another part to bring it to the 10 part compliance requirement.

For those interested, he was selling on AR15.com for a while, until they pulled the ad (the admin pulled it from ar15 because they felt that it might compete with paying ads). Everyone who purchased seemed satisified with the quality, I am hoping that he will make the gas pistons. Not sure I want to replace the stock forend.

http://www.benelliusa.com/forums/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/3739.html#000000

[thekwyjibo]

When did this law come into effect?

US code 18 was signed into law by George Bush the first in 1989 if memory serves.

[Lurker251]

I got the full length tube from the gentleman that originally listed them for sale on the ar15.com forum back in July/Aug. A FIRST rate product. Perfectly matched to the M4 in fit, finish and color. It is even better than the batch of OEM full-length tubes that became available in Sept. All the OEM tubes had swirl tool-marks on them.

Full length tube replaced the standard 5 round tube and 2 round limiter. Pistol-grip stock swapped out to a standard stock. (EDIT: read the updated DOJ list. So guess the 2 round limiter and mag tube are regarded as one).

[Spawn_X]

Just FYI, I bought my M4 from a reputable dealer in Burbank, CA, and they offered to order me the extension when buying and said a +2 is perfectly legal

These guys carry a large inventory, so I'm sure they are carefull when it comes to legalities, but could be they aren't that deeply into the whole parts count thing

[gose]

Just FYI, I bought my M4 from a reputable dealer in Burbank, CA, and they offered to order me the extension when buying and said a +2 is perfectly legal

These guys carry a large inventory, so I'm sure they are carefull when it comes to legalities, but could be they aren't that deeply into the whole parts count thing

Well, looks like your reputable dealer's view on what's legal differs from the ATF's view

Selling you a +2 extension is perfectly legal, you adding it to your shotgun isn't. So they've got their back covered, you're the one who might get in trouble...

[JPN6336]

Just FYI, I bought my M4 from a reputable dealer in Burbank, CA, and they offered to order me the extension when buying and said a +2 is perfectly legal

These guys carry a large inventory, so I'm sure they are carefull when it comes to legalities, but could be they aren't that deeply into the whole parts count thing

I recently had a dealer with a good sized inventory tell me the new Beretta 90Two is on the list and so he can sell it. No matter how many times I scour the list, I only find original 92/96 series. Bottom line is that having inventory doesn't make them experts on legal issues, read the laws for yourself, contact BATF and/or DOJ for clarification as necessary and make your own decisions.

[Rugerman]

Wow!!!

thanks for all the info guys! so since a place like ImpactGuns is WITHIN the USA i can order a Benelli M4 with the pistol grip on, right? and if the pistol grip is allowed, a 7 round extension tube can be added too right?

[slick_711]

I recently had a dealer with a good sized inventory tell me the new Beretta 90Two is on the list and so he can sell it. No matter how many times I scour the list, I only find original 92/96 series. Bottom line is that having inventory doesn't make them experts on legal issues, read the laws for yourself, contact BATF and/or DOJ for clarification as necessary and make your own decisions.

The Ninety-Two is not on the list, although Beretta claims it will be soon. However, the dealer selling you something not on the list is a crime only for the dealer, there is little/no way you yourself could get into trouble for purchasing a gun not on the list as long as you go through the paperwork and purchase it in the same fashion you would purchase any other legal handgun. However, how your dealer will DROS something that is not in the DROS menu I couldn't tell you.