Reminton 870 vs Mossberg 500 - a comparison

[bigbossman]

I'm sure this topic has been beat to death, but maybe yet another post will help someone out. I do not use these as HD guns - they are used exclusively as hunting guns and configured as such, and that is my perspective when evaluating them for field use.

I have always been a big fan of the Mossberg 500, and own three- a 12, 20, and .410. All have served me well and have been inexpensive, reliable proven performers in the field. They are great knock-about guns that shoot and carry well in the field. without having to worry about scrapes. scratches, and other dings and damage.

The 12 gauge was the newest acquisition, bought used from a fellow CG member a couple of years ago. It is a typical Big 5 combo gun, and last year performed flawlessly for the whole duck season. A couple weeks ago it started to act up during a duck hunt and cost me a couple of doubles. Random light strikes - sometimes it would fire, sometimes not. I called Mossberg, and they said "it is under warranty. Send it in, we'll fix it"... so I did. (before you ask - YES, I checked it for gunk and debris and found it clean and properly lubricated )

Anyway - the gun went in for service, and I found myself in the middle of duck season without a duck gun. On the way to a friend's house, I stopped at a local gun shop and they had a pair of Remington 870 Express shotguns on the consignment rack for cheap. Early 90's guns by the serial number, but they looked like they'd never been fired.

Now, I am well aware of the possible issues with the newer Remington's, but these looked good and YouTube videos assured me that most of the failures were easily addressed by some polishing. Besides, I needed a duck gun ASAP, and one of these would serve until I got my beloved Mossberg back. I picked one, paid the money, and picked it up the day after Christmas. Yesterday I took it out for a shakedown hunt to see if it would be good enough.

It was, in spades. We killed two limits, and along the way recorded four doubles. The gun was a real beast. So, the comparison/pros/cons of each gun from my experience with them......

I like the Mossberg's because they are inexpensive, light, and reliable. I like that they have dual extractors and I really like the thumb safety on top of the receiver. I also like that the action release button is at the rear of the trigger guard - it is intuitive and easy to find and operate. They are also easy to take down and clean/maintain In addition, they point ans swing easily, and happen to fit me well out of the box.

What I do not like is that the fit and finish is just ok, the slide tends to rattle a bit, and a lot of the parts like the slide safety are cheaply made.

The Remington..... well, I've only shot it once vs. decades with the Mossberg 500 so it is not a fair comparison, but I liked it. I like the substantial feel of the gun in the blind (steel receiver vs the aluminum 500), but I wouldn't want to carry it as a field gun. It points and swings well, and apparently fits me well enough to kill what I'm shooting at. The slide action is smoother than the Mossberg.

What I do not like.... the metal finish looks robust, but it is not. After one day's use, I already have shiny/thin spots on the receiver. I do not like the one MIM extractor, and I do not like the way the ejector is built into the receiver wall - not easy to replace if it breaks. Also, the slide release is forward of the trigger guard, opposite of the trigger finger. That makes it hard to find and operate in a pinch. Also, the more traditional button safety was rough as a cob - but repeated on/off cycles smoothed it out by the end of the day.

In summary - if you're looking for a budget gun to take a beating and not worry about, you probably can't go wrong with either. I give the slight edge to the Mossberg because I like the controls better that the Remington, but that really comes down to what you're used to.

[LEAD LAUNCHER]

Nice review.

Best way to verify the date of your 870 of course would be to call Remington with the serial,but if you think it still has the original barrel on it-the barrel code prefix letter or letters will tell you as well.

Chart is here:

http://www.rem870.com/2012/01/19/remington-870-serial-number-lookup/

I'm glad you apparently got an express that actually runs.
My experience working at a range with several 2016-2017 year 12 ga. models gave nothing but trouble.

Literally on a daily basis.

Either mortaring to get stuck shells out or not actually extracting and requiring a ramrod.
With several brands of ammo,but some worse than others.

Perhaps polishing chambers and replacing extractors/ejectors with higher quality parts would have fixed them.

Better solution when you are buying 5-10 inexpensive shotguns for range use is obviously buying another cheap pump that actually works-like a Mossberg.

I've never been a Mossberg guy(because-cheap feeling-light- and rattley)but the damn things are cheap(especially the Maverick)and they go bang every time.

Also like the dual extractors.

Nowadays-if anyone asks me what NEW el cheapo pump shotgun to buy-easy-Maverick or a 'Berg.

Or find an older Remington.

I don't know-perhaps the current Wingmasters or Police models are still ok.
I've read at least the Police models still have the better parts and more quality checks.

I've owned 4 Remingtons and all were great,but they were older.
Never had a malfunction or trouble with any of them as far as I recall.

Had a couple used field 28"-30" models bought in the 80's and 90's(an 1187 and a 870-don't remember the grade)and an 1187 Police 21" rifle sight bought in the 90's.

Sold all the above(shoulda hung on to the Police)and now I'm down to the one Cylinder bore 18" CHP Police trade 870.

Barrel code say's it was built in 1967,and it looks like it.
It's a beater-but it's my HD scattergun.

But....the often $200 price (or even less on sale) price of the Maverick 88's I keep seeing has me wanting to pick a couple of those as well.

One for a trunk gun and one for the shop.

Or-hell-for not much more $- I could pick up one of the combo barrel ones and actually do some hunting or bust some clays when it's not being a defense gun.

..

[bigbossman]

Nice review.

Best way to verify the date of your 870 of course would be to call Remington with the serial,but if you think it still has the original barrel on it-the barrel code prefix letter or letters will tell you as well.

Chart is here:

http://www.rem870.com/2012/01/19/rem...number-lookup/

Thanks for the chart - the barrel is original, and the gun was made in 1992.... so 25 years ago. Maybe they didn't have issues back then? Dunno. I was VERY leery about buying one, because the horror stories are literally everywhere you look. But - I needed a gun NOW, because it is duck season prime-time. That was the gun I could get the quickest for the least amount of money, so I rolled the dice.

By the time the Mossberg gets back to me duck season will be over, and I didn't want to get sidelined or risk bringing my "pretty" field guns into such a harsh environment. Besides, the LGS owner is a good guy, cut me a sweet deal on this gun, and I wanted to spread a little Christmas Cheer in his establishment..... relationship building and all that.

Like I said in the review, I've only used it the one time. I may disassemble itself the next time out, who knows. I just need it to work for the month or so that the Mossberg is gone, and then we'll see if I keep it or sell it. Guaranteed, I won't lose money on it.

[LEAD LAUNCHER]

Not sure if the Express problems started with Freedom group guns,but I would imagine that's the case.

Your gun was built long before Remington was bought by Freedom Group.

..

[pennstater]

And I would keep that 870. It seems to work fine. Nothing like a good back-up gun. Especially a working 870. Win-win!

[Sandro]

Nice review,
Just curious, if you love Mos500 so much and have such a great experience with it why to gamble and not to buy another Mos500 as a backup, they can be had for ~$200
Big5 has a sale on Maverick for $200

[wpage]

Both the mossy 500 and Rem 870's have sold close to 11 million units each...

With those kind of #'s there are bound to be a few clunkers around. For the money you cant find more bang for the buck.

[bigbossman]

Nice review,
Just curious, if you love Mos500 so much and have such a great experience with it why to gamble and not to buy another Mos500 as a backup, they can be had for ~$200
Big5 has a sale on Maverick for $200

If I had a Mossberg 500 in front of me for the same price as the 870 that day, I would have bought it instead. I had two "used" Remington 870's in front of me for cheap, no sales tax, and I needed a duck gun ASAP.... no time to go shop-hopping around to various outlets looking for a better deal.

The closest Big 5 only had the $399 combo 500 in stock.

[W.R.Buchanan]

My Pump shotgun experience is mostly Tactical with a little Field use a long time ago.

My first Pump gun was an Ithaca 37 which I bought for $100 form a friend in 1973. I Still have it and recently put new wood on it and sent it to Ithaca for a Complete redo. The gun is beautiful!

I recently went to a shogun class at Front Sight with my M500 with 20" barrel and open sights. I learned how to manipulate the gun there and all I saw of The 870's in the class was people fumbling with them trying to Port Load and unload the guns.

The Rems have two distinct disadvantages.

1. the Ejection Port is significantly smaller than the Mossberg's which causes problems when single loading the gun. The Bergs are just easier to get rounds in. This shows up quickly when blasting off rounds as you need to be able to quickly Port load the gun so you aren't standing there with an empty gun after you shoot it dry. (Watch the Cowboy Guys run their M1897's for the quickest out there.)

2. the Lifter on an 870 has a high spot on it and if the slide is closed even a little that high spot blocks the port and you have to physically push it down to correct the problem. Obviously this is not conducive of fast loading in a High Stress Situation.

The Mossberg definitely has the edge here as well as having a simpler action that is easier to service with no tools. It is easier to load and unload.

The slide release and the safety are also easier to operate with the M500 and both can be manipulated without changing the firing hand grip in any way.

Mossbergs are also much less expensive . My Tactical model was given to me as an 18" barreled and cost my FinL $205 at Big 5. I added the 20" bbl for $116 and the Magpul furniture for another $100.

The other gun I have started as a Field Model with a 28" bbl and wood furniture. I installed the takeoff plastic stock fore end barrel and magazine from the original gun and now have a HD gun. I paid $150 for the second gun.

I will probably put Magpul Furniture on the second gun just so it handles like the other one, and looks cooler.

My whole point here is that these guns are definitely the way to go in Pump Shotguns for home or urban use.

For Field Use I guess it would be a toss up.

My .02 on this subject.

Randy

[crufflers]

I like that the Moss 500 is light. Plenty sturdy for me. I like the safety location. If I want something heavier I'll get a 590. Also love my 930.

[bigbossman]

For Field Use I guess it would be a toss up.

Yeah - if I were going to go with a HD setup, I agree that the Mossberg is better suited (for the reasons you stated). I like the feel of the 870, but I like the controls on the Mossberg a lot better. Even for field use I think that the thumb safety on top of the receiver, as well as the location of the action release button, is a better design. Also, the Mossberg has dual extractors..... that's a nice feature.

I like that the Moss 500 is light. Plenty sturdy for me. I like the safety location. If I want something heavier I'll get a 590. Also love my 930.

I have a pair of older 500's, and they seem to be better made than the newer one. The newer 12 gauge has a plastic, hollow stock. Because of the light weight, when you're shooting 3" shells in the blind it can slap you if you get careless on your mount. I'm thinking of buying some older heavier furniture for it, just to tame the snap.

[crufflers]

I have a pair of older 500's, and they seem to be better made than the newer one. The newer 12 gauge has a plastic, hollow stock. Because of the light weight, when you're shooting 3" shells in the blind it can slap you if you get careless on your mount. I'm thinking of buying some older heavier furniture for it, just to tame the snap.

Mine's older... has good fit and finish, plus fantastic trigger. I have not shot many 3" through it but at least a few boxes.

[drinktothat421]

970 all the way just polish where your shell extracts.

[bigbossman]

970 all the way just polish where your shell extracts.

What is a 970?

[bigbossman]

So, just some additional random musing on the 870.................

As I said in the OP, my Mossberg was sent off for repair. The update on that is that is fixed and due to be delivered on Monday. In the meantime, I have taken the 870 out for ducks on four trips..... and I gotta tell ya, the 870 has been an Angel of Death for the ducks. Just about everything I point it at falls from the sky. I've hit more doubles in the last four trips than I've hit in my entire life. Even the teal buzzing by parallel to the blind on passing shots are getting creamed. It's like a magic wand.

I don't see how I can sell this gun after the Mossberg gets home. Further, I'm not sure the Mossberg is going to be in the starting lineup what it does get back.

Kind of a Wally Pipp/Lou Gehrig situation - if you know your baseball history.