Yet another Ammo question - Semi Auto -

[russ69]

Actually a lot. #8 shot will lose several hundred FPS going across your living room...

The data I just looked at has the velocity dropping 162 FPS at 30 feet. Energy goes from 573.5 to 429.4 lb/ft. Still a lot of energy. A 38 special shows 200 ft/lb at the muzzle just as a reference.



REF DATA: https://rangeservices.nra.org/media/...ballistics.pdf

http://www.ballistics101.com/38_special.php

[JagerDog]

The data I just looked at has the velocity dropping 162 FPS at 30 feet. Energy goes from 573.5 to 429.4 lb/ft. Still a lot of energy. A 38 special shows 200 ft/lb at the muzzle just as a reference.



REF DATA: https://rangeservices.nra.org/media/...ballistics.pdf

http://www.ballistics101.com/38_special.php

OK..so closer to 200. I bet even that surprised you (how much could it slow in 30').

Small lead pellets are lousy penetrators. A human body can absorb a lot of energy.

But hey, use whatever you want. I'll just say I'm glad I was shot with 1-1/4oz of #5 and not buckshot.

[newbutold]

I've shot thousands of shotgun shells, but for HD I keep a .40 handy.

[SandHill]

I've shot thousands of shotgun shells, but for HD I keep a .40 handy.

That's funny. I've shot thousands of rounds of .40, but for HD I keep a 12 gauge handy. (Actually, I keep a .40 handy as well, but I can't imagine reaching for it over the 12 gauge.)

[FresnoRob]

I've shot thousands of shotgun shells, but for HD I keep a .40 handy.

That's funny. I've shot thousands of rounds of .40, but for HD I keep a 12 gauge handy. (Actually, I keep a .40 handy as well, but I can't imagine reaching for it over the 12 gauge.)

Depends on how you are going to defend yourself in your home.
If you are going through you home to clear in and you are NOT highly trained use the handgun. If you are hunkering down waiting in place for the intruder to come to you then use the Shotgun.

Unless you need to get to loved ones in another part of the home and you are not highly trained do not try and clear your home. IMHO

[-hanko]

Heavy shot is about retained energy. How much energy do you think is lost in short distances? If you think a load of number 8s at short distance is not lethal, I'll have to disagree.

That's up to you.

Heavy shot is about retained energy PER PELLET, not per the entire load as the entire load is made up of tiny pellets.

So, compare the energy in an individual #6-#8 birdshot pellet v. 00 or 0 or #1 or #4 buck and report back.

You could also check the FBI's database on one-shot stops.

The fact remains that birdshot is designed for thin-skinned targets, not humans.

[theLBC]

interesting debate...albeit an old one.

generally speaking, if you are close enough for bird shot to kill or take down the intruder immediately, what are the odds you're going to miss?

if an intruder is standing over your baby's crib with a knife, can you use something with that much spread without endangering the child?

imho, the best way to ensure the safety of others is to train.

if you don't have the stomach to kill, maybe rubber buck or slugs would be equally effective?

[Sunday]

Everytime I was attacked by "drywall perps" I killed them with 00 buck, followed by 4B. No overpenetration there
You need to realize that with home defense you are willing and ready to KILL to save yourself and your family. There is no second chance.
If you cannot KILL to protect yourself and your family, buy a guard dog.

Legally you shoot to STOP the threat .

[russ69]

...generally speaking, if you are close enough for bird shot to kill or take down the intruder immediately, what are the odds you're going to miss? if an intruder is standing over your baby's crib with a knife, can you use something with that much spread without endangering the child?...

There is a lot of Fudd about shotguns. The only points I was trying to make is that a 12 gauge shotgun has a lot of energy and at close ranges (indoors) it's going to effectively transfer that energy on target. I just read that it is like getting 4 hits with a 45acp all at once. Slugs and buckshot have a whole bunch of energy, kinda getting near elephant gun territory (a little less than some and a little more than 30-06 and perhaps another thing I haven't mentioned that you'll have to aim your shotgun at short ranges.

[-hanko]

There is a lot of Fudd about shotguns. The only points I was trying to make is that a 12 gauge shotgun has a lot of energy and at close ranges (indoors) it's going to effectively transfer that energy on target.

I just read that it is like getting 4 hits with a 45acp all at once. Slugs and buckshot have a whole bunch of energy, kinda getting near elephant gun territory (a little less than some and a little more than 30-06 and perhaps another thing I haven't mentioned that you'll have to aim your shotgun at short ranges.

One more time...

You are ignoring basic laws of physics if you're comparing equal loads of one projectile like a bullet or slug with the same weight of a load made up of multiple smaller projectiles.

You're also ignoring penetration...bird shot doesn't travel far enough in gelatin testing to even think of recommending it for home defense.

[JagerDog]

There is a lot of Fudd about shotguns. The only points I was trying to make is that a 12 gauge shotgun has a lot of energy and at close ranges (indoors) it's going to effectively transfer that energy on target. I just read that it is like getting 4 hits with a 45acp all at once. Slugs and buckshot have a whole bunch of energy, kinda getting near elephant gun territory (a little less than some and a little more than 30-06 and perhaps another thing I haven't mentioned that you'll have to aim your shotgun at short ranges.

Ummm...not really. Around 3000 ft*lbs (max) for 12g slug and around 5400 ft*lbs for 458 Win Mag. 7500 ft*lbs for a 460 Weatherby mag. A lot of deer rifles approach 3000 ft*lbs including a 30-06.

Bullets for elephants are generally solids with a high sectional density to provide the deep penetration. The opposite of a birdshot pellet (roughly 4" of penetration) or even SD pistol bullets which are designed to expand in a controlled fashion to expend their energy within the depth of a BG (around 14").

There's really no comparison. That you're trying hard to make one only shows ignorance.

[elSquid]

It's about time that this link is posted again:

12 gauge Wound Profiles (56k beware)

FBI says 12 to 18 inches of penetration is what you should 'aim' for...

-- Michael

[Dellinger]

Bird shot is not HD ammo under any circumstance. Watch the video to see how good it works on a chunky college girl. She took a 12 gauge round to the chest at less than 10 feet and took a second to stop reading her text.

https://youtu.be/_F_KuFzjOGA

[golfish]

This stuff comes in and out of stock at SGA all the time. It's darn good stuff but as you know it's hard to find. Check out this stuff

http://www.sgammo.com/product/12-gauge-ammo/250-round-case-12-gauge-275-inch-sellier-bellot-12-pellet-number-1-buck-shot-a

[FresnoRob]

Thanks, just a few more days and no more shipping to our doors