Pointing vs. Aiming

[GaryPowersLives]

Let me point out one distinction when using a shotgun. When shooting turkey, you do aim. That is why I have a Glo sight on my shotgun when I go for that bird.

[.454]

The man was right and you are much too sensitive. When you shoot a rifle you close one eye then align the target with the sight by looking with the open eye at both; in other words you are supra imposing the sight over the target in a straight line from the target to your eye pupil. That is AIMING.

When you shoot a shotgun, you are raising the shotgun level to your head and put your head over the shotgun comb (that's the top part of the stock). Next you follow the target with your BOTH EYES OPEN and your cheek glued to the stock, using the shotgun barrel like you are using your own hand to point at the target. You are using the front bead as a reference in your peripheral vision (you will see it, but somewhat blurred) but your both eyes must to be focused on the moving target. Of course when you pull the trigger you need to learn to keep pointing and follow the target with your eyes and the barrel even after the shot left. That is POINTING.

You need to be fast and learn to trust your instinct not your logic (estimating and mentally calculating distance, trajectory, point of impact is logic). Remember this: logic is not good. You shoot using the logic part of your brain, you miss. You shoot with the instinctual part of your brain, you hit. When you are doing this right you will feel what is called connected to the target. That means you will know even before pulling the trigger that the shot goes where it needs to go.

[Thefeeder]

??

I tell new clay, sheet, trap shooters to follow the bird to the ground hit or miss...follow the pieces if its a hit. This will get the habit of swinging firmly in place.....most stop the swing when they shoot or stop to see if they broke the target

And yes, you point in front of the bird while you keep swinging...the more you try to aim, the worse you get.

[randy]

Ghost rings are for people that want to shoot slugs and not practice using the front bead.

[truthseeker]

if you just point at it, how do you know if your leading or trailing or high or low? do you use the sites or point from the hip? oh thats a good one, why not just shoot from the hip then? lol

I shoot lots of LIVE birds every year (~1000 pigeons ~2000 pheasant). When I first started I would always do "bead checks" to make sure they were aligned correctly then I would focus on the bird and "let the shogun fire itself". I was also a "one eyed shooter" for the longest time out of habit from shooting lots of rifles in the military.

Now that I have a consistent mount I never check the beads, but I merely focus on the birds beak and fire when it feels right. I also do NOT close my left eye when shooting anymore when using my shotgun since using 2 eyes seems to make the birds slow down when focusing on them.

I use 1 1/4 ounce of #6 shot with reloads that have a velocity of between 1350-1385 FPS.

I gun for Springer Spaniel field trials and the minimum distance that they like the bird to be shot is 40 yards. The end of MY comfort zone (where I am almost 100% sure I will kill the bird) is ~50 yards. I have shot birds up to 80 yards numerous times, however the pattern has so many holes in it at that distance that I think anything longer than ~60 yards is pretty much luck.

Just practice a lot and remember that clay pigeon shooting is different than shooting LIVE birds because clay pigeons are slowing down the moment they leave the house but LIVE birds are accelerating from the moment they start flying.

As for leads, if it is under 40 yards flying from right to left I normally only have a little light between the barrel and the birds head.

The reason I always focus on the head/front of the bird is because if you don't have the exact amount of lead it gives you more leeway for hitting the bird.

[GaryPowersLives]

"I gun for Springer Spaniel field trials "

I need to talk to you! I'm looking at my third Springer puppy and want to work on getting this one into field trials.

[BTF/PTM]

This thread has turned into a fantastic information source. Thanks everyone! There are so many great feedback points here for pointing/aiming/shooting that I'm gonna need to copy them all into a word file and read them several times over

[sb_pete]

I've always heard the pointing not aiming thing too. Nothing new there. If the guy yelled at you, he was probably just trying to hammer the point home. Maybe he was being a jerk, but maybe you were just being too sensitive. It's not knitting class, ya know?

As it was explained to me, you practice getting a good cheek weld with the butt stock firmly in the shoulder pocket so that your eye is looking out down the barrel. The bead sight helps you in getting this alignment correct, but is not actually something you focus on while shooting. I have always shot with both eyes open, but some people have trouble with this (especially if you are cross eye dominant). You don't so much aim a little in front of the bird as focus on the space just in front of it. The gun should be firmly planted in your shoulder with your face firmly planted on the stock. Your whole body will then move and point the gun where your eye is focusing. This way, the bird pops out, your eye sees the bird, follows the bird, focuses just in front, then pull trigger and kill the bird.

I had always heard that follow through mattered (just as it does with rifles), but had never heard that bit about changing the pattern of the shot. That's interesting. It seems to make sense, but I wonder if it really works given the shorter ranges involved. That would be interesting to see a proper test of.

[sargenv]

True, Turkey hunters do aim.. but you generally try to call them close enough and you generally want to do a head shot to keep from destroying the meat. At least that's my limited understanding. You also use extra full chokes and if I recall, #4-6's. It's more like a deer hunt in that once you fire your round and get your bird, you are done. Unlike other upland game and waterfowl where you have a limit of more than 1 and the birds are generally moving through the air as opposed to being called into range on the ground for a hit or miss proposition. Apples and oranges really In that situation I'd likely use a red dot sight of some kind or one of the fiber optic sights.

[Wompinblazer]

I read this entire thread, and I have to say I learned something new. Whenever the friends all go up to Frazier Park we buy 100 clays and have a blast (no pun intended) and I have always managed to do well with my HK. Maybe 4/5 hit.

I have to try the point method now. I want to try to "paint" the clay.

Good info!

[ysr_racer]

My shotgun doesn't have any beads on it ?

When you play baseball, do you look at the bat or the ball? With 1 eye or 2?

When you play golf, do you look at the club head or the ball? With 1 eye or 2?

When you play tennis, do you look at the racket or the ball? With 1 eye or 2?

When you merge onto the freeway, do you look at the hood of your car or where you want to go ? 1 eye or 2?

Are you starting to see a pattern here?

Look at your target and your brain will do the rest. Yes, I know, it’s not for everybody, but give it a try for a few months.

Now onto something else. After you hit the ball with the (bat, club, racket) do you stop dead in your tracks, or do you follow thru?

You follow thru.

Same thing in sporting clays, if you stop the gun, you probably shot behind the target.

[ZOMBIEHUNTER]

i think shotguns are best shot by instinct if you practice alot it comes natural

[Tho_Sun]

Reminds me of zen archery, not for everyone.

[andrewj]

Well, considering the dictionary definition of aim is:

1: to direct a course ; specifically : to point a weapon at an object

I'd have to say the guy is a dooshbag with a superiority complex. Just my two cents though...

djleisure nailed it. This guy has a superiority complex just like all those old fart gun shop employees and owners who look down their noses at you the second you walk in their store. Theyre just waiting for the oppurtunity to cut someone down.

Next time, ask him if they sell bullets for your shotgun.

I'd love to see that converstaion

[M. Sage]

if you just point at it, how do you know if your leading or trailing or high or low? do you use the sites or point from the hip? oh thats a good one, why not just shoot from the hip then? lol

Head on the shotgun, eye on the clay, swing through the target and as you swing through, pull the trigger. Works like a charm.

ETA: Wow, I can't put it any better than ysr racer did.

Next time you shoot clays, remember: Luke, trust your feelings.