Flare Gun 22lr insert legality?

[ROACHSHACK138]

Sorry if this has been discussed before but I've looked everywhere (Googled here and back) and I keep finding conflicting opinions. I've heard that a rifled 22lr insert for a flare gun is legal in CA but it seems that no one will ship it. I've also heard that this may be classified as a zip gun so I'm at a lost. Does anyone have some info they can pass my way? Appreciate it!

[bohoki]

they have rifling and makes a legal gun

just when you install it in a flare gun you are making an unsafe handgun

so i guess assemble it out of state then bring it back and vol reg it

[CenCalHobbist]

I would think that it would be a self made firearm like an 80% build. It also appears to be a single shot so it would pass for SSE along as the barrel was long enough.

[Jester3]

I gotta hand it to some of you guys who can follow, interpret the gun laws here in this lawyer loving state. I'm with Roach, when it comes to an oddity, there are soooo many rules, statements in the codes, gotta drive a normal man nutz!

I am soon to retire, maybe that is why these rules drive me crazy, outta here to a free state, the way Calif. USED to be, where a guy can go to your LGS, Walmart, whatever and buy the weapon of your choice, not be told it holds to many rounds, not safe, on roster, to short a barell, SSE, skip three times and do one backflip, GEEZ!

[small hole shooter]

I have a friend who lives on a boat. I asked if he had a firearm for protection when out on the ocean. He said now there are flare guns that can fire shotgun
shells as well as flares, before they were bigger so this could not happen.
So he now takes some shotgun shells when he goes on his trips.

[edgerly779]

USGC approved Flare guns are not designed to accept the chamber pressures from even low base shotgun ammo. I would not try it myself. Don't try that at home ask mythbusters to test it. Big fail on this one.

[jigenax]

Orion did some tests on their plastic 25 mm and 12 gauge flare guns with inserts. ATF published the findings in this PSA. Bottom line, "Don't do it.".

http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/05/050406-openletter-nfa-flare-inserts.html

[CWDraco]

I have a friend who lives on a boat. I asked if he had a firearm for protection when out on the ocean. He said now there are flare guns that can fire shotgun
shells as well as flares, before they were bigger so this could not happen.
So he now takes some shotgun shells when he goes on his trips.

a flare gun modified to fire shotgun shells is a DD requiring a tax stamp... think I read that on the ATF website

[nickel plate]

USGC approved Flare guns are not designed to accept the chamber pressures from even low base shotgun ammo. I would not try it myself. Don't try that at home ask mythbusters to test it. Big fail on this one.

edgerly, if I may correct you-Several years ago in a published monthly free magazine called Latitude 38 which is still in circulation and caters to the west coast yachties and those who sail/motor south, in their paid advertisers listings ran an add for many years for a product called a "Machete Stopper". It was a steel sleeve insert that would accept a .410 shotgun shell which was then inserted into a store bought appropriately sized plastic USCG approved flare gun. The add even further stated to buy at least two of the steel inserts to save time re-loading as the steel sleeve had a screw top with an enclosed transfer firing pin which encased the .410 shell. I had the opportunity to shot one several times and found the steel sleeve well machined and safe to fire.
The sales niche was that our southern country neighbors heavily frowned upon guns being transported by yachties into their waters so you could without a lot of effort hide the small .410 pre-loaded metal flare gun sleeve away from the emergency flare gun itself.

[nickel plate]

Orion did some tests on their plastic 25 mm and 12 gauge flare guns with inserts. ATF published the findings in this PSA. Bottom line, "Don't do it.".

http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/20...e-inserts.html

Orion lawyer-eze.

[surplus-addict]

edgerly, if I may correct you-Several years ago in a published monthly free magazine called Latitude 38 which is still in circulation and caters to the west coast yachties and those who sail/motor south, in their paid advertisers listings ran an add for many years for a product called a "Machete Stopper". It was a steel sleeve insert that would accept a .410 shotgun shell which was then inserted into a store bought appropriately sized plastic USCG approved flare gun. The add even further stated to buy at least two of the steel inserts to save time re-loading as the steel sleeve had a screw top with an enclosed transfer firing pin which encased the .410 shell. I had the opportunity to shot one several times and found the steel sleeve well machined and safe to fire.
The sales niche was that our southern country neighbors heavily frowned upon guns being transported by yachties into their waters so you could without a lot of effort hide the small .410 pre-loaded metal flare gun sleeve away from the emergency flare gun itself.

I found them!

http://books.google.com/books?id=jJstEru2_6IC&pg=PA110&lpg=PA110&dq=machete+stopper+.410&source=bl&ots=pqTv88Dwmh&sig=Sny4OFbeFaVQM5S1jwzXmYdeaE4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=57ioU7WEHcz-oQTWoIGwBw&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=machete%20stopper%20.410&f=false

[nickel plate]

I found them!
http://books.google.com/books?id=jJs...20.410&f=false

That's it!

[surplus-addict]

That's it!

I looked up the address; it's a small 900sqft house in the hills of Topanga.
I can't seem to find a real photo of the insert, though: sucks because it would be cool to reverse engineer.

[JasonL]

Flare gun with rifled insert

I emailed to the DOJ regarding the rifled 22lr flare gun insert and they called me back today telling me that it using it in a flare gun would make a zip gun. He added that you can make your own gun for own use but it has to be from scratch, not converted from something not originally made to be a firearm (the flare gun).
I had also asked what if the barrel is more than 6" and overall length of 10.5", he said it would also be a zip gun. I said thank you and hung up.

When I researched further into the CA zip gun law, it has been discussed here that if it is no tax due, as in is the case, then it is not a zip gun. So I have the feeling that DOJ is trying to skirt the issue of the ATF tax exemption "loophole" nulling the CA zip gun law. Sounds like a very grey area still?

They no longer make or sell the 22lr Kennesaw insert. However, one could buy the 26.5mm to 12 gauge flare adapter, and a 8" shotgun (rifled only) insert from Shortlane, file diameter down in a small section, and will fit into the 12-gauge flare adapter. Regular shotgun shells will not fit in these, so is not a AOW. This will make a single shot handgun that by dimension is exempt from safe gun law.

What do you think of this setup?

[bohoki]

I emailed to the DOJ regarding the rifled 22lr flare gun insert and they called me back today telling me that it using it in a flare gun would make a zip gun. He added that you can make your own gun for own use but it has to be from scratch, not converted from something not originally made to be a firearm (the flare gun).
I had also asked what if the barrel is more than 6" and overall length of 10.5", he said it would also be a zip gun. I said thank you and hung up.

When I researched further into the CA zip gun law, it has been discussed here that if it is no tax due, as in is the case, then it is not a zip gun. So I have the feeling that DOJ is trying to skirt the issue of the ATF tax exemption "loophole" nulling the CA zip gun law. Sounds like a very grey area still?

They no longer make or sell the 22lr Kennesaw insert. However, one could buy the 26.5mm to 12 gauge flare adapter, and a 8" shotgun (rifled only) insert from Shortlane, file diameter down in a small section, and will fit into the 12-gauge flare adapter. Regular shotgun shells will not fit in these, so is not a AOW. This will make a single shot handgun that by dimension is exempt from safe gun law.

What do you think of this setup?

if its not in writing it didn't happen

there are plenty of flaregguns not made of plastic