Legality of high capacity fixed rimfire

[drummag]

Hey-

From what I see, all the laws pertaining to high capacity refer specifically to centerfire and/or magazine. If one were to import a high capacity magazine parts kit before the end of the year, bolt (not even a bullet button so it is never actually in the form of a magazine) the magazine shell to let's say a 22lr ar15 before installing the spring and follower (so it was never a magazine), as well as using the take down pins to load/reload, does this violate any laws one can see?

-Mike

[CWDraco]

Hey-

From what I see, all the laws pertaining to high capacity refer specifically to centerfire and/or magazine. If one were to import a high capacity magazine parts kit before the end of the year, bolt (not even a bullet button so it is never actually in the form of a magazine) the magazine shell to let's say a 22lr ar15 before installing the spring and follower (so it was never a magazine), as well as using the take down pins to load/reload, does this violate any laws one can see?

-Mike

wut? I can't understand your question. Explain it again.

[Lurch762]

He wants to if it is legal to somehow bolt a high capacity magazine body into a .22lr AR & reassemble it to turn it into a high capacity fixed magazine. I think that would still be illegal since CA law specifically stated that only tubular ammunition feeding devices on rimfires are allowed to hold more than 10 rounds.

[CWDraco]

If one were to import a high capacity magazine parts kit before the end of the year

- ILLEGAL right now.

You can import a repair kit that has the ability to be assembled into a high capacity magazine, but on 1/1/2014, that turns into a crime.

I get it now. You want to manufacture a fixed magazine .22lr AR15 that holds 11+ rounds. That is still illegal even if you didn't violate the AW law. Magazine law is separate from AW law.

Post 1/1/2000 its illegal to manufacture ANY magazine that holds more than 10. Lever action and tube feeds are excluded as are 10rd magazines manufactured out of LCM permanently.

[drummag]

Correct....rephrased, I am arguing the validity of it being a "magazine" at all if it is "permanently" attached (for ****s and giggles let's even say it was welded on)

- ILLEGAL right now.

You can import a repair kit that has the ability to be assembled into a high capacity magazine, but on 1/1/2014, that turns into a crime.

I get it now. You want to manufacture a fixed magazine .22lr AR15 that holds 11+ rounds. That is still illegal even if you didn't violate the AW law. Magazine law is separate from AW law.

Post 1/1/2000 its illegal to manufacture ANY magazine that holds more than 10. Lever action and tube feeds are excluded as are 10rd magazines manufactured out of LCM permanently.

[drummag]

Not trying to be argumentative, just a friendly debate.....but I think one would sooner call that a loophole.

I think that would still be illegal since CA law specifically stated that only tubular ammunition feeding devices on rimfires are allowed to hold more than 10 rounds.

[CSACANNONEER]

If you legally own the +10 round mag in CA, you can legally use it as a fixed mag or detachable mag on a rimfire rifle. However, you can't import parts today and them make them into a new usable fixed rimfire magazine unless it is a tubluar magazine.

Not trying to be argumentative, just a friendly debate.....but I think one would sooner call that a loophole.

I would not call it a "loophole" since, it is an exemption which was clearly written into the law.

[drummag]

The dictionary describes a magazine as

"A compartment in some types of firearms, often a small detachable box, in which cartridges are held to be fed into the firing chamber."

You guys are correct, it is still considered a magazine even if it is welded to the lower.

Thanks for the $0.02!

[morrcarr67]

The dictionary describes a magazine as

"A compartment in some types of firearms, often a small detachable box, in which cartridges are held to be fed into the firing chamber."

You guys are correct, it is still considered a magazine even if it is welded to the lower.

Thanks for the $0.02!

I just want to touch on this point as you go forward with your learning about our totally confusing firearm laws.

None of the companies that compile words and their definitions have an affect on the laws.

Both Federal law and California law have their own "legal" definitions as to what a "magazine", "revolver", "pistol", "rifle", etc etc etc is..

You will get yourself in trouble if you go by what a dictionary says and not what the "legal" definition is.

[CSACANNONEER]

The dictionary describes a magazine as

"A compartment in some types of firearms, often a small detachable box, in which cartridges are held to be fed into the firing chamber."

You guys are correct, it is still considered a magazine even if it is welded to the lower.

Thanks for the $0.02!

The law bans "high capacity ammunition feeding devices" and does not care if it a "magazine" or not.

[SCZ]

Re: LCM laws and the Uberti Cattleman 22lr 12 shot..

Someone posted in the rimfire section they got one.. in their post they indicated it just "got out of jail." http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=864294

Why don't the LCM laws apply?

Is it because revolvers contain # separate chambers and rounds aren't fed into them?

[drummag]

Yes and thank you. Even if the dictionary specifically described a magazine as detachable....well, let's just say if I was rich, had time to fight a felony criminal charge, I *might* manage to stay out of prison. Most people, especially myself are neither rich nor have huge amounts of extra time.

I just want to touch on this point as you go forward with your learning about our totally confusing firearm laws.

None of the companies that compile words and their definitions have an affect on the laws.

Both Federal law and California law have their own "legal" definitions as to what a "magazine", "revolver", "pistol", "rifle", etc etc etc is..

You will get yourself in trouble if you go by what a dictionary says and not what the "legal" definition is.

[Quiet]

Why don't the LCM laws apply?

Is it because revolvers contain # separate chambers and rounds aren't fed into them?

It appears to be the case.

Or could be because CA DOJ knows nothing about the capacity of the revolver and/or they don't have time to get around to checking.

[SCZ]

It appears to be the case.

Or could be because CA DOJ knows nothing about the capacity of the revolver and/or they don't have time to get around to checking.

Ok... thanks

[CWDraco]

If you legally own the +10 round mag in CA, you can legally use it as a fixed mag or detachable mag on a rimfire rifle. However, you can't import parts today and them make them into a new usable fixed rimfire magazine unless it is a tubluar magazine.



I would not call it a "loophole" since, it is an exemption which was clearly written into the law.

I could argue this is not correct. In the OP he would be manufacturing a Semiauto rimfire fixed rifle with parts of a rifle and a detachable magazine. Sure the magazine WAS a LCM, but afterwards is not the same LCM, therefore under exclusion #25 it must be have a capacity of 10 or less and be in that state forever.

So if you take a detachable LCM, and turn it into a Fixed LCM you have manufactured a LCM post 1/1/2000.