Rimfire Summer Match (June-July-August)

[Izzy43]

This statement is normally at the end of each month's match announcement:

As I sense some dissatisfaction being voiced about the matches I would encourge anyone who has a problem with the way the match is run, recommendation about targets, how many times a target can be shot or any other way to improve the matches should PM the match co-ordinator with those comments. I have made a number of changes to targets, rules, etc.. based on feedback from shooters. We (the match coordinators) cannot possibly satisfy everyone's desires in these matches but we try to do the best that we can based on our limited knowledge and experience in doing this.

We happily accept any recommendations from all shooters, send us a target that you feel would be good for a particular use in the match. These matches have been going on for several years and have evolved over time from shooting one target to what it is today. There are only two of us running the matches (soon to be three) so our ideas are limited to two or three brains and our experience level.

The matches were intended to be fun, a little challenging and promote shooting as well as develop skills. None of us want these matches to degrade into a frustrating experience.

We try to improve the matches as time passes but please use the PM process to help us improve further. Complaining in this thread will not accomplish anything. Thanks.

Izzy43

Is there something in the above post that is not clear? I co-ordinate matches, I take input from shooters via PM on recommedations/comments/suggested improvements. I am not co-ordinating the current match but I guarantee those of you who are complaining in this thread when I am co-ordinating that I do not and will not scour this thread every day looking for complaints. I review the thread everyday for scored targets.

All have been invited to communicate via PM with the match co-ordinator and continuing to complain in this thread is rude and not productive. We do the best we can and are open to suggestions to improve the match for everyone. All complaints in this thread will be ignored by me and hopefully the other co-ordinators.

Izzy43

[mark]

mr Rabbit what do you ghink is elite equiqment? I use a rifle from the 40' many other people use 10/22 others marlins. if the equipment you are using isnt worjing for hou you can always switch to scoped instead of irons about a 30 $ fix. woukd you also like to limit the ammo we can use. you shoukd visit an appleseed project and watch what people can do wifh a cheao 10/22 with bulk ammo. instead of being upset that you are being intentionally forced oht of.a.match focus on your shooting. proper sight alligment and sight picture breath control trigger control. this is a voluntary match out on by volunteers theg are not out to screw someone.over we are all lookibg at the same target at the same distances. im gojng tk.use ny henry h001 with irons this month. stop being negative and enjoy the sport.

[Merc1138]

Well the rear aperture sight is actually a little easier. When you look through it, you can actually look through it at any angle and it won't change point of impact. The rear aperture acts as your eye and the front post will be similar to targeting a shotgun.

This also helps people with vision problems as well as the small aperture helps focus on the target.

Well yes, but the concepts are still the same, and being aperture sights is certainly not "elite" equipment. They both require using an appropriate sight picture(which mrrabbit is apparently not using), and in this case it means not having the point of impact being directly in the middle of your front sight post so you can't see the target.

[Dattebayo]

The AR-7 is peep rear and plastic sight front. Henry sent me several front sights for me to shave down from 2mm to .5mm. No need to spend money - no need to bust a budget. Something everyone else could do as well with budget rifles with "cheap" sights.

But now I can see just enough inside the usual 100 yard target to actually have a chance at the bullseye. Sure I didn't win last month - but for awhile there at least I was in the competition. I simply found the rough middle - raised my aim approx. 8 inches - and prayed for the best. Eley Target did the rest...

Similar for the 25 yard last month...

To be really honest - I don't like the peep or aperture front sight - I really do prefer the older setup shown above in an earlier post. But I have what I have.

=8-)

I am luckily a newer shooter so training to learn different sights it was easy for me to adapt to. I could imagine if I was shooting post sights for a decade plus, it would be difficult for me to change.

Guns are like fishing lures, if you aren't confident with it, your better off with the setup that you are as it'll reap more fish and more bulls.

At the end of the day though, even if you were shooting a $3000 Anshultz in these tournaments, if you were a crap shooter, the results will not change.

[Merc1138]

Strawman...read my earlier post.

=8-)

Which earlier post? The one where you posted an image of the sight picture you're using so it's easy to point out how you can resolve the problem without spending a time? There's no "strawman" at all, you're using your front sight wrong for shooting small targets. If you think that you can't use a 6 o'clock hold with an AR-7, then it's because you don't understand the sight picture(which I already told you).

edit: This is the sight picture you should try using. Unless your sights lose zero after every shot, your point of impact will remain in the same place, as long as you put the front post in the same place.

[Dattebayo]

The title is "Monthly Rimfire Match". That's the invitation. In the past two months - targets were posted that throw a bias to those with better sights or equipment.

Also, strawman - read my earlier post.

=8-)

No matter what type of targets, if you are using "better sights" there will always be a bias with the person with better equipment. If you make easier targets, the "better sights" people will just score better.

If anything Rabbit, it seems you actually want more classes to shoot. Possibly a post iron class and a aperture iron class? Or stock unmodified rifle class and modified rifle class? As I think it will accomplish what you are looking - which is what it seems is an equal playing ground.

To my knowledge, you don't even have to shoot 22LR rounds, as if you wanted, you could use any rimfire, which has better ballistics than the 22lr.

Making the target easier won't solve anything but just make this competition like a 3rd grade event where everyone gets 1st place blue ribbons.

[mark]

mr rabbit you keep saying the title is an invitation. if this is a party you dont want to attend then dont. if you think this is a.one sided match well good on you. the people putting this match on do it for fun if your not having fun dont play. if yoh can sef up a better match or.wanf to set.up a strict everyone has the same gun match or a post only no aperture sites contact the mods and try to set.it.up. ultimately yohr whinning about.how.everyone has better stuff is falling o deaf ears. if I go buy a hinda im not going to go to a track day and complain aboht the.corvettes are lapping me and say they shoukdnt be able to play. we get what we pay for and you shoukdnt have a hard time getting a vun fhat can compefe here for 150. your posts say youre shooting match ammo if you can afford fhat I dont know why.yoire complaingjn qbout being on a budget. if this match is not a fit for you start a new one.

[Merc1138]

Post #47

I just gave you a picture of how to use your front sight post to hit the center of the bullseye without obscuring the target. I even used the same smaller bullseye and the sight post from your own image. The only change required is to adjust your elevation.

If an AR-7 doesn't have elevation adjustment for it's sights, then you need to resolve that on your own. It has nothing to do with the thickness of the front sight post, or diameter of the target.

[Merc1138]

Strawman...

Once again and I'll repeat, stick to targets that EVERYONE can see slightly within. From that point on - Mr. Consistency wins IRREGARDLESS OF EQUIPMENT.

The current 100 yard irons and 50 yard irons for example are perfectly fine.

=8-)

Your sight picture is not an equipment issue

Did you even read post #47?

=8-)

Yes, I did. For some reason you don't understand how sights work. There is no requirement that your point of impact be dead center in the front sightpost to hit a fly at 200 yards. If your 6 o'clock hold is as consistent as your center of mass hold, your shots will consistently be in the same place, however you'll have the advantage of actually seeing the point of impact in your sight picture instead of covering it up.

[mark]

ok I vote we have an ar-7 only 5 yard humanoid target with a 10 inch bullseye. so we can all be whinners whoops I mean winners.

[Merc1138]

From Post #47:

This picture was posted as an example what happens when you suddenly shrink the target...not of how I actually aim.

=8-)

Now assuming you can actually slow down and read carefully:

1. At 25 yards I am at 6-o'clock and a tad down from where I estimate the bullseye to be to compensate for the slight rise of the round before it begins its drop.

Worked out fine last month - simply because since the target was a hair wider than my sight - I could get a decent estimate of where the "bulleyes" would be. At least I had a shot at it. However rightfully so Mr. Consistency won...

2. At 50 yards I am at 6-o'clock and roughly on the bottom edge of what I estimate to be the bullseye area. Why? Because the normal 50 yard target is slightly wider than my sight - I can estimate. Worked out fine in March. But as expected, Mr. Consistency won...that's how it goes.

Last month - the target was so small in comparison - I may as well have shot at a tiny dot on a piece of paper. Forget about even estimating where the bullseye was.

3. At 100 yards I am at what I estimate to be the center horizontally - but what I estimate to be 7-8 inches above. I was able to estimate last month where the center was because I could just barely see the left and right edges of the target. Once again though, Mr. Consistency won the match.

Thoroughly kicked my butt actually...

=8-)

You don't even need to be able to see the bullseye. Adjusting your elevation is mechanical. If you have your rifle shooting 1 MOA high over the front sight post, it will always be shooting 1 MOA over the front sight post at whatever range you made the adjustment for.

According to #2 here you're using a 6 o'clock hold for 50 yards, great, now work on your consistency. That's a problem with you, not the target, and not the rifle. It's not supposed to be easy.

If your hold is so far off at 100 yards, then adjust your elevation to compensate. Again, this is a mechanical adjustment. As I said previously, if your AR-7 has no elevation adjustment, then too bad. If you can adjust for elevation and you're choosing not to, that's entirely your problem. If you can adjust elevation but don't understand how, that's your problem too.

[Dattebayo]

Strawman...not at all the basis for my argument.

=8-)

It may not be the basis of the argument, but the solution you are proposing is just that. A larger, easier to see, target.

There are many rimfire shooters that just have too old eyes for irons. As I said, I have 20-15 vision and still have a tough time making out Olympic standard targets. A lot of people that shoot rimfires use scopes because of that. If you can't see it, you can't hit it. Maybe that is the limitation of your physical ability to shoot. Olympic shooters seem to hit that x mark with great consistency even at 50 yards.

Now I am not saying we all need to be Olympic level shooters to compete, but it is nice to try to compete at their level to see how far off you are from the big leagues.

[Merc1138]

It may not be the basis of the argument, but the solution you are proposing is just that. A larger, easier to see, target.

I wouldn't even say he's proposing anything, more like trolling at this point since he refuses to understand anything about his sight picture, or sight adjustment while proclaiming that factory sights on $400-$500 rifles are "elite", then resorting to his nonsense trying to claim everything is a strawman(and I don't think he even understands what that means), all while crapping up the thread.

[mark]

I dont know what strawman is and I dont care. stop using a sur ival rifle.not itended for match use and bit and moan about mr consistency using his elite rifle. no one hides what they shoot they are often proud of what they have. if YOU are shooting YOUR rifle to.its limits maybe its time for a new.rifle. yoh have to.pay to play. suck it.up and.start shooting.


stop your sniveling and trolling and just enjoy a day of.shooting. use these matches.to.compete against you and track your progress.

[Dattebayo]

I dont know what strawman is and I dont care. stop using a sur ival rifle.not itended for match use and bit and moan about mr consistency using his elite rifle. no one hides what they shoot they are often proud of what they have. if YOU are shooting YOUR rifle to.its limits maybe its time for a new.rifle. yoh have to.pay to play. suck it.up and.start shooting.


stop your sniveling and trolling and just enjoy a day of.shooting. use these matches.to.compete against you and track your progress.

I am guessing his strawman refers to Wizard of Oz, as the Strawman lacks a brain.