Rimfire Summer Match (June-July-August)

[10xhobby]

peter
cool, just let me know if I can help

[Dattebayo]

I can understand your frustration Mr.Rabbit, but I believe the rules stated at the beginning of this post was that you could shoot as many times you want during these three months and the best scores will be the runner.

Also, in the rules of this forum tournament, I don't believe it ever said that you can only shoot the target once. To my knowledge you can print the target an indefinite amount of times and throw as many rounds as you want at paper till you get the score you want. Regardless of how many tries you get, this game is still of consistency as with last week, you had to hit 4 targets perfectly in succession. If you shot 3 good targets and 1 bad one, you are still boned from a perfect score.

This week, I feel it has made it more challenging in that there are now 8 targets you have to shoot in perfect succession, without screwing up once, without ruining your score. You can shoot up 10 paper targets and still not get the perfect score you were going for. I shoot targets like this 4 times a week, about 4 hours a session - and let me tell you that if you can score a perfect score on this sheet in any of the 3 positions, you could probably very well qualify for the US Olympic shooting team.

Now at the same time, I don't consider aperture sights "elite" equipment, but rather just another form of sights. Aperture sights come stock on many firearms and actually preferred by the military, as it is historically seen in service rifles. Even then, aperture tech sights are very inexpensive to purchase and probably costs you less than ammo these days.

For the record, my CZ 452 isn't really anything special. Aside from a aftermarket stock and some sights, it is all stock. I have less than $500 invested into it.

[peterabbits]

I guess I always interpreted "as many times as you want" to mean as many times as you want within the confines of the time period of the match, or, in a month. Speaking for myself, I get exactly 20 minutes to shoot when I go (lunch hour minus round trip drive time). That means I have enough time to shoot 8-10 bulls eyes total, depending on how many per page. This month that gives me enough time to shoot 2 targets - no warm ups, not even any review of how I did on one target before I shoot the other. And I'm using a 10/22 from the mid 80's that I got off the forum for $150 - and all I've one to it is detail strip and clean and added tech sights - I'm in it for less than $250. I always viewed the match as a way to give myself "incentive" to improve on my personal abilities, but then again, I've not been in the running yet for top score, nor do I anticipate that to happen in the near future. I guess if its a "one and done" per month, I need to know that so very thing up to what I consider my "best target" will be considered practice and not posted.

[Merc1138]

What a cluster**** of a thread. My thought was "hey, I'll finally have enough time to remember to print the things, and actually remember to take them to the range!".

As far as the elite equipment bit... well yeah if your equipment isn't capable of performing well enough, what do you expect? It doesn't take a high end optic to see any of the scoped targets, as far as irons go plenty of low end rifles come with sights that are better than "crude" from the factory. Since you didn't even specify what type of sights you consider to be "crude", I have to ask... why aren't you using a 6 o'clock hold so you don't cover the entire target with the front sight post then? Also, aperture sights on a $400 rifle is hardly "elite".



Onto my original question, the 100 yard scoped target is simply listed as a 100 yard scoped target, but the target itself is 100 yards sit/kneel or 50 standing. Is that 100 yards actually sitting or kneeling for it, or is that part being ignored and it's 100 yards however you want?

[10xhobby]

The biggest reason I shoot this match is to improve my own level of Marksmanship, it is not a competition to me. I like to challenge myself with the different types of targets that are used, some are great and some are very difficult but I shoot them anyways. The others shooters here are very good and have been shooting for a long time so I am happy to be able to compare my scores to them to see if I am improving.
The other is the equipment is not as big a deal as most may think, but the more time you spend at the practice range makes the biggest improvement. Better equipment just makes it a little easier. The better shooters can still out shoot me with my own equipment and I'm OK with that it just means I need more practice.
So just out to the range shoot the targets that are provided and I promise you that you shooting skills will improve well beyond your own expectations.

[mark]

my rifle is elitess I wonder if they knew it would be when it was built 70 years ago. mr rabbit if.you dont like the direction the match is going they did ask for volunterrs last month. Rimfirecentral also has a.bunch of.shooting games if you just want to compete against yourself and your own equipment. these targets are.hard for any of us to.see but we try. It is also pretty rude to point out the shooting achievements some of the shooters here have made and pretty much say it was only the gun that did the work they just pointed it.

[Izzy43]

This statement is normally at the end of each month's match announcement:

As I sense some dissatisfaction being voiced about the matches I would encourge anyone who has a problem with the way the match is run, recommendation about targets, how many times a target can be shot or any other way to improve the matches should PM the match co-ordinator with those comments. I have made a number of changes to targets, rules, etc.. based on feedback from shooters. We (the match coordinators) cannot possibly satisfy everyone's desires in these matches but we try to do the best that we can based on our limited knowledge and experience in doing this.

We happily accept any recommendations from all shooters, send us a target that you feel would be good for a particular use in the match. These matches have been going on for several years and have evolved over time from shooting one target to what it is today. There are only two of us running the matches (soon to be three) so our ideas are limited to two or three brains and our experience level.

The matches were intended to be fun, a little challenging and promote shooting as well as develop skills. None of us want these matches to degrade into a frustrating experience.

We try to improve the matches as time passes but please use the PM process to help us improve further. Complaining in this thread will not accomplish anything. Thanks.

Izzy43

[usmcchet9296]

You know if you look at the last few years of the monthly rimfire matches I was the winner on most of the iron rifle targets and allot of the scoped ones. Im not tooting my horn its just how it turned out. Most of the rifle targets were shot by me and 3-4 other shooters so there wasnt much in the way of competition for us. If you look at this year there is much more competition and guess what Im not the 25/50/100 yard iron winner every month and the shooting for me has been more fun than it has been in a while. Yes last months 50 yard target was hard but isnt that what its supposed to be. I won the 50 with a .22 kimber not a .177 so the target wasnt posted for a specific caliber firearm. I thought giving people an option to shoot as much or as little over the summer would take some pressure off people wallets. I know how much ammo is going for and I know its been months for me since I last found some reasonably priced ammo and Im sure most of you shooters are in the same boat. If you guys want to go back to monthly just PM me and I will break it back down to three months matches. We want this to be fun but at the same token if you are only shooting to get a prize well that kind of defeats the purpose of the matches dont it.

[Dattebayo]

You know if you look at the last few years of the monthly rimfire matches I was the winner on most of the iron rifle targets and allot of the scoped ones. Im not tooting my horn its just how it turned out. Most of the rifle targets were shot by me and 3-4 other shooters so there wasnt much in the way of competition for us. If you look at this year there is much more competition and guess what Im not the 25/50/100 yard iron winner every month and the shooting for me has been more fun than it has been in a while. Yes last months 50 yard target was hard but isnt that what its supposed to be. I won the 50 with a .22 kimber not a .177 so the target wasnt posted for a specific caliber firearm. I thought giving people an option to shoot as much or as little over the summer would take some pressure off people wallets. I know how much ammo is going for and I know its been months for me since I last found some reasonably priced ammo and Im sure most of you shooters are in the same boat. If you guys want to go back to monthly just PM me and I will break it back down to three months matches. We want this to be fun but at the same token if you are only shooting to get a prize well that kind of defeats the purpose of the matches dont it.

I personally like the matches I have participated in this far. Frequency doesn't matter to me as I spend at least 48 hours at the range every month. Aside from just wanting to win a CalGuns t-shirt lol, I shoot to one day join the Olympics. Before I would shoot against myself, I had no bar of how good or bad, I just knew that I could shoot on average of 75% - 80% score total.

I was intimidated to try a real actual match because I was under the impressions that matches were full of people shooting in the 90% range, but it may seem I could probably partake in some local matches and hold my own.

Maybe next month, you guys can change the target to silhouette bulls to make it easier for the post iron shooters and give a really tough challenge for aperture iron shooters . Heck make the targets as hard as humanly possibly - I am down for that as everyone is in the same boat and has to that target as well!

On a side note, I practice even my shooting position when I work. Look at this awesome free standing shooting position ftw lol.

[sando]

I like how this match is run. I get out to a local range as much as possible but some months are busier than others. So I post as many or as few targets as I can. I shoot for fun and to challenge myself. It's relaxing. But it's also fun to compare myself to others of similar abilities. One of these days I'll win a t-shirt!

Thanks to the coordinators for putting these matches together.

[Merc1138]

[ATTACH]238769[/ATTACH]

Attached or inserted is what I am describing. Most targets posted are Scenario A. Sure, I can't exactly aim for the bullseye like those with better sights - but I can extrapolate from the sides of the circle and the top some idea of where the bullseye is.

As Dattebayo correctly pointed out - the person who is consistent will likely win the match. That's the point of match.

Even I and others with crude sights like mine have a shot at it - if we do just that. Sure it's harder for us - but we do have a chance.

However, when Scenario B occurs - as was the case with the 50 yard last month and the 25 yard posted just this month - BAM! - you've just eliminated me from the match. All I can shoot reliably is the target period - I cannot aim within with any kind of consistency.

Remember:

The thread title is "Monthly Rimfire Match". That's the invitation..

Not, "Elite Equipment Rimfire Match", nor is it "Shoot Until You Win Rimfire Match".

But's that's essentially what the effect is when you suddenly shrink a target - AND allow folks to do a target session repeatedly beyond one day.

It's like me writing and administering an exam for Alegebra, but tossing in a few Geometry problems...and allowing a couple students to come back and take the test a second time after school when others have to go home.

It's like forcing the ASVAB test on students instead of running it as a voluntary test. The recruiters get screwed because the scores that get generated cannot be used to determine whether or not the students are capable of making a commitment. All they get is a score for capability - not committment...

So as I stated awhile back...

Either call it a Monthly Rimfire Match - and set it up exactly as that - a match with targets that all rimfire rifles and handguns can sight within...and let the winner be the most consistent irregardless of equipment.

Or call it something else that denotes a "sophistication" and run it as that.

=8-)

So stop using a center of mass hold, and use a 6 o'clock hold. I even found an image for you of an example of a 6 o'clock hold sight picture. You'll notice that the center of the target is not obstructed. Using a different sight picture so your target isn't obstructed has nothing to do with "elite" equipment, it's using a more appropriate sight picture for the equipment you have.
edit: Heck, here's another image for you

[Dattebayo]

Well it appears with the post sights, you are doing just as much estimation as with aperture sights. For me anyways, even using the smallest aperture I could buy, the aperture is still significantly bigger than the target at 25 yards or a A23 target at 50 yards.

To put some perspective, this is how my sight picture looks.



Even though I see the black circle, it is very difficult to have it perfectly in the center. Even in the photo, if I pulled the trigger with the sight in its location, it'll hit right and low probably around the 7 or 6 ring.

[Dattebayo]

This picture was posted as an example what happens when you suddenly shrink the target...not of how I actually aim.

The target width wise gets completely obscured...so the aim is now reduced to simply aiming at the target instead of within for the bullseye area. Sure I could have lowered the sight in the picture so that people could point out:

"Well, just put the target in the middle of the sight and above 6-o'clock"...

But all I can do is consistently hit the target in general - not within for the bullseye.

As I already v e r y c a r e f u l l y p o i n t e d o u t consistency is still the endgame.

Nor am I once again asking for a 3 foot hole on the 18th green at the US Open.

=8-)

Is it even possible to aim at the bull with these targets? I have 20-15 vision and I just make out the black to the 4 ring and try to center the black circle in the circle of my sight. I don't think I have ever actually aimed at the 10 ring in any of my target shooting. It is all get the circle in the center of the circle game for me. If I can make out the 10 ring and it fits in my circle aperture, it would be hard pressed for me to score anything lower than a 9.

[Merc1138]

This picture was posted as an example what happens when you suddenly shrink the target...not of how I actually aim.

The target width wise gets completely obscured...so the aim is now reduced to simply aiming at the target instead of within for the bullseye area. Sure I could have lowered the sight in the picture so that people could point out:

"Well, just put the target in the middle of the sight and above 6-o'clock"...

But all I can do is consistently hit the target in general - not within for the bullseye.

As I already v e r y c a r e f u l l y p o i n t e d o u t consistency is still the endgame.

Nor am I once again asking for a 3 foot hole on the 18th green at the US Open.

=8-)

You don't understand the sight picture then.

If that entire target takes up the entire width of your front sight post, it would be pretty easy to center it regarding windage. If you constantly put the front sight post on the bottom of the target, then your elevation will be the same.

You're right, consistency is the end game, however you need to understand how to use different sight pictures. If your rifle is accurate, there is absolutely no reason you cannot hit the center of the bullseye every single time with a 6 o'clock hold, if you're keeping that sight picture consistent.

Aperture sights work the same way. You need to line up the rear sight, front sight, and target, while trying to consistently keep everything centered.

Same thing with a rifle scope!(well, you only have 2 planes to deal with... target and reticle, compared to 3 planes)

The short version: You're doing it wrong.

[Dattebayo]

You don't understand the sight picture then.

If that entire target takes up the entire width of your front sight post, it would be pretty easy to center it regarding windage. If you constantly put the front sight post on the bottom of the target, then your elevation will be the same.

You're right, consistency is the end game, however you need to understand how to use different sight pictures. If your rifle is accurate, there is absolutely no reason you cannot hit the center of the bullseye every single time with a 6 o'clock hold, if you're keeping that sight picture consistent.

Aperture sights work the same way. You need to line up the rear sight, front sight, and target, while trying to consistently keep everything centered.

Same thing with a rifle scope!(well, you only have 2 planes to deal with... target and reticle, compared to 3 planes)

Well the rear aperture sight is actually a little easier. When you look through it, you can actually look through it at any angle and it won't change point of impact. The rear aperture acts as your eye and the front post will be similar to targeting a shotgun.

This also helps people with vision problems as well as the small aperture helps focus on the target.