22 Cal large capacity magazines

[Merc1138]

Right...so its currently illegal to buy/sell/trade/lend/borrow/import. Please note the difference for me

Just now you listed

Buy
Sell
Trade
Lend
Borrow
Import

Again, you are listing things clearly not in the PC. I pasted PC 12020(a)(2) into my post, read what it lists and then compare to you list.

[Kryptyde]

Yes, technically half of a lending transaction and half of a selling transaction is legal...so what? The transaction itself is rendered illegal by the selling/lending component and prevents legally aquiring said magazine.

You are welcome to argue technicalities until the end of time; the simple fact is that the answer to the OP's question is...no, you can not legally aquire a 110 round magazine for your GSG 522. Nuff said.

[Merc1138]

I'm not arguing anything with you, I'm pointing out that your reasons why he can't get the magazine do not match what the law says(and for some reason you still don't seem to acknowledge it). The law is black and white on this, and yet you tell people differently. If you are telling people that activities are illegal(when they clearly aren't based on the PC that anyone can look up) then you are wrong and spreading FUD.

[Kryptyde]

Just a case of semantics methinks.

When I say it is illegal to buy one, what I mean is that since the law forbids the offering of sale or exposing for sale of said item, you can not conduct a fully legal transaction to buy one. The same logic goes for lending/borrowing.

Also, any lawyer will tell you laws are rarely if ever black & white.

[Merc1138]

It is not semantics, the law specifies what is illegal, you keep inserting things into your list that are not illegal. Heck, there are even exemptions for people allowed to sell large capacity magazines and buying from those people would definitely NOT be illegal.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12020.php

2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.

Anything you keep adding to the list is FUD.

[Kryptyde]

Ok since logic is failing and for some reason today I have the patience to argue with a robot, let's try a different tact:

Would you please provide a completely legal method for OP to aquire his 110 round magazines for his new GSG 522 in the lovely state of CA? Lets assume that OP is not a member of the military or law enforcement to keep it fair

[Cokebottle]

The 10 round magazine limit applies to rimfires as well (tube-fed rimfires are the one exception.

Its illegal to buy, borrow, trade or import one.

My personal recommendation would be to avoid it, especially as its for a new gun.

Wrong.

PC12020(a)(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.

"Buy, borrow, trade" are not listed as specific crimes.

It would be illegal for someone to sell, lend, or give you one (except under specific exemptions), and it is true that "purchase/borrow" could expose you to conspiracy charges....

But lacking evidence of conspiracy, the only crimes that someone in possession of a high cap could be charged with would be manufacture or importation, and the burden of proof is on the state.

They can't just tell the jury "Well, the defendant is 24 years old and his parents are hardcore anti-gun people, so he could not possibly have possessed the magazine prior to Jan 1, 2000"

They have to be able to PROVE exactly when and how the actual crime took place.

And "when" becomes important because there is a 3 year statute of limitations.
There is an important distinction though....

PC12020(b)(23) The importation of a large-capacity magazine by a person who lawfully possessed the large-capacity magazine in the state prior to January 1, 2000, lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning to the state with the large-capacity magazine previously lawfully possessed in the state.

If you possessed a magazine in California in 1995 and took it out of state, you are exempt from PC12020(a)(2) in re-importing it.
If Uncle Joe visited California in 1995 and brought his high-caps with him, he can today legally bring them back. The PC says nothing about residency... mere possession inside of California prior to 1995 qualifies for the exemption.

BUT....
If you illegally imported a magazine on April 21 2008, you are immune from prosecution today because the 36 month statute of limitations has expired. However, the PC12020(b)(23) exemption does not apply, so that magazine is doomed to forever remain within California. Taking it out of state and bringing it back home triggers a restart of the 36 months on a fresh importation violation.

[Cokebottle]

We live in a state where they are illegal. Trying to work around the law, especially with a firearm that was only manufactured post-ban

Wrong again.

"They" are not "illegal" in California.

Even if the gun was manufactured after the ban, it is still not illegal to possess and use magazines that you owned prior to the ban.
ALL 9mm glock mags are compatible (except the G26 mags won't fit the standard frame models). If you have a pre-ban 33rd Glock magazine, you can legally use it in a new Gen-4 Glock.

Likewise, if I sell one of my featureless AR builds to my friend, he can legally use his 30rd USGI magazines in it.

Also, even if the magazine has date codes stamped on it, it doesn't matter. Legally-possessed pre-ban magazines can be repaired with modern replacement parts.
Bodies that say "FOR LE USE ONLY" are today irrelevant. They are a relic of the federal ban which sunset in 2004. Anyone can own those mag bodies now, and they can be used to rebuild an older magazine today.

Amen. I have had LEO randomly inspect guns at a public range also.

Under what authority? Did they have a warrant? They have no RS or PC to inspect a normal handgun, even if you are shooting high caps, unless they can articulate reasonable suspicion that the gun is stolen or was used in or is about to be used in the commission of a crime.

My wife has three 15rd magazines for her 92FS. She just got the gun 2 months ago, but the mags were given to us by a cop buddy about 15 years ago.

[Cokebottle]

itnot illegal to buy them, just to posses them built.

No, it is illegal to assemble them.
It is not illegal to possess them assembled.

It would be illegal to take them out of state and bring them back in assembled (2nd crime, importation of a magazine not possessed prior to Jan 1, 2000).

The crime is a one-time occurrence. Possession is not a crime.

[Cokebottle]

no, you can not legally aquire a 110 round magazine for your GSG 522. Nuff said.

There is at least one way to do so.....

PC12020(b)(27) The sale of, giving of, lending of, importation into this state of, or purchase of, any large-capacity magazine, to or by entities that operate armored vehicle businesses pursuant to the laws of this state.

Ok since logic is failing and for some reason today I have the patience to argue with a robot, let's try a different tact:

Would you please provide a completely legal method for OP to aquire his 110 round magazines for his new GSG 522 in the lovely state of CA? Lets assume that OP is not a member of the military or law enforcement to keep it fair

See above

[Izzy43]

Wrong again.

"They" are not "illegal" in California.

Even if the gun was manufactured after the ban, it is still not illegal to possess and use magazines that you owned prior to the ban.
ALL 9mm glock mags are compatible (except the G26 mags won't fit the standard frame models). If you have a pre-ban 33rd Glock magazine, you can legally use it in a new Gen-4 Glock.

Likewise, if I sell one of my featureless AR builds to my friend, he can legally use his 30rd USGI magazines in it.

Also, even if the magazine has date codes stamped on it, it doesn't matter. Legally-possessed pre-ban magazines can be repaired with modern replacement parts.
Bodies that say "FOR LE USE ONLY" are today irrelevant. They are a relic of the federal ban which sunset in 2004. Anyone can own those mag bodies now, and they can be used to rebuild an older magazine today.

Under what authority? Did they have a warrant? They have no RS or PC to inspect a normal handgun, even if you are shooting high caps, unless they can articulate reasonable suspicion that the gun is stolen or was used in or is about to be used in the commission of a crime.

My wife has three 15rd magazines for her 92FS. She just got the gun 2 months ago, but the mags were given to us by a cop buddy about 15 years ago.

OK, I don't want to be spreading FUD around so back to the OP's original question. HI-Capacity Magazine (more than 10 rounds)for a GSG-522. Lets focus on answering his question if that's OK.

First question: Did High Capacity magazines exist for this firearm prior to the Ban?

Second: When was the first date that a person could purchase a GSG-522 in California?

Third: Are there now Hi-Capacity magazines available in kit form, repair form or complete off the shelf that are legal in California that a person can assemble or purcase for use in that weapon in California (not just posses them)?

My previous posts were addressing the OP's question about his particular firearm so what misinformation did I provide about his GSG-522 and Hi Capacity magazines? Thanks.

Edit: Forgot one question. When was the 110 round magazine first available?

[fishnbeer]

so what is the exact definition of a "tube-fed" magazine and how can i make one to fit my rifle??????

[Merc1138]

OK, I don't want to be spreading FUD around so back to the OP's original question. HI-Capacity Magazine (more than 10 rounds)for a GSG-522. Lets focus on answering his question if that's OK.

First question: Did High Capacity magazines exist for this firearm prior to the Ban?

Second: When was the first date that a person could purchase a GSG-522 in California?

Third: Are there now Hi-Capacity magazines available in kit form, repair form or complete off the shelf that are legal in California that a person can assemble or purcase for use in that weapon in California (not just posses them)?

My previous posts were addressing the OP's question about his particular firearm so what misinformation did I provide about his GSG-522 and Hi Capacity magazines? Thanks.

Because of the exemptions on PC12020, he may be able to legally buy large capacity magazines. Additionally if he picks up someone's broken mag at the range and fixes it, that's not manufacturing or importing. Also, the date the firearm and it's magazines existed in relation to the date of the ban isn't relevant since what matters is the 3 year statute of limitations and the burden of proof being on the state that you manufactured, imported, etc.

So it's not likely that the OP will ever legally acquire a large capacity magazine for his GSG, but it is not impossible.

Then there's this: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=375349

[Cokebottle]

so what is the exact definition of a "tube-fed" magazine and how can i make one to fit my rifle??????

That has been looked into, but it seems that it is not workable.

"Tube fed" would be something similar to a shotgun (which are not exempt). They are extremely common on lever-action rifles (which are exempt), and there are quite a few .22lr as well (which are exempt).

For the most part, the tube magazine would be considered "fixed" and is an integral, functional part of the gun.

The odd thing is that, unlike AW laws, there is no blanket exemption for rimfire.... only for .22. .17 is not exempt

PC12020(b)(25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

[Merc1138]

As neat as it would be, due to the engineering involved I doubt we're ever going to see a detachable tube fed .22(although it would definitely be neat since I don't recall ever seeing anything that specifies a tubular magazine as being non-detachable).