Can anyone tell me about this "AR"?

[13204u]

Yeah he wants a basic 22lr AR, he is old school and doesn't like all the bells and whistles. So I am going to have to put one together for him.

[1988]

For the same money, look for the Spike's ST-22 upper, which has high quality barrel, ie. LW or GM.

[IsaacGlass]

OP check out Tabors San Bruno, they carry Colt, S&W, Ruger and Remington 22LR's.

[sb_pete]

I would avoid the Colt/Umarex. There have been a number of complaints about them including a pretty funny series of gunbroker ads from a retailer who had too many returned. That said, alot of people are very happy with theirs. More important for me, the takedown/cleaning procedure is different, the bolt release is non-functional, the bolt hold-open doesn't work when a mag is dropped, and it doesn't use AR triggers and has a sh**ty trigger.
______________

The S&W M&P 15-22 can be had for ~$500 on average. Less online - they are $419 at Bud's Gun Shop. They have a polymer instead of aluminum receiver but they do everything else right.
1. Buttstock, Pistol Grip and trigger assembly are fully interchangeable with any AR parts. You can put in a nice Rock River 2-stage trigger and your favorite furniture.
2. It is lightweight.
3. The bolt-release works like an AR
4. The bolt hold-open functions normally so you can practice proper reloads.
5. The takedown and cleaning procedure is the same.
6. It costs ALOT less than a dedicated upper build.
7. The mag is MUCH easier to load than the dedicated upper builds which all use Black Dog Machine (BDM) / Ceiner mags. The S&W mags (like the Umarex mags) don't look as cool as BDM mags but they have an opening and thumb follower like many other (eg. Ruger Mk series) rimfire mags. If you have ever spent a day loading BDM 30 rd mags, you know what I mean. It gets old... quick.
___________________

The dedicated uppers are great. A friend of mine has a really nice Spike's upper. It is fun as hell to shoot and very accurate. You can even get them with the Lothar-Walther target bbls making them super accurate. The problem is they are expensive ($550-$800 on average for the upper only so add cost of lower, furniture, LPK, buffer assembly). If you already have a lower this is less of an issue, but in CA it is probably a featureless or fixed mag build which unnecessarily limits the gun.

Also, the mags are great but not as easy to load as the S&W (or the Colt/Umarex) mags (this matter because you will very easily go through a 525/550 pack in a day - they're just that fun to shoot).

Also, the bolt hold-open feature on these is (like the Colt/Umarex) based on having an empty mag in the well. Drop the mag, the bolt closes.

I really like the dedicated uppers, but when you can have a dedicated entire firearm for less than the upper and when that gun has advantages (like easier to load mags and a properly functioning bolt hold-open) over the upper, why would you buy the upper?

Anyways, hope that helps,
-Pete

[IsaacGlass]

I would avoid the Colt/Umarex. There have been a number of complaints about them including a pretty funny series of gunbroker ads from a retailer who had too many returned. That said, alot of people are very happy with theirs. More important for me, the takedown/cleaning procedure is different, the bolt release is non-functional, the bolt hold-open doesn't work when a mag is dropped, and it doesn't use AR triggers and has a sh**ty trigger.
(Bill Springfield 4lbs trigger job for $35)
______________

The S&W M&P 15-22 can be had for ~$500 on average. Less online - they are $419 at Bud's Gun Shop. They have a polymer instead of aluminum receiver but they do everything else right.
1. Buttstock, Pistol Grip and trigger assembly are fully interchangeable with any AR parts. You can put in a nice Rock River 2-stage trigger and your favorite furniture.
2. It is lightweight.
3. The bolt-release works like an AR
4. The bolt hold-open functions normally so you can practice proper reloads.
5. The takedown and cleaning procedure is the same.
6. It costs ALOT less than a dedicated upper build.
7. The mag is MUCH easier to load than the dedicated upper builds which all use Black Dog Machine (BDM) / Ceiner mags. The S&W mags (like the Umarex mags) don't look as cool as BDM mags but they have an opening and thumb follower like many other (eg. Ruger Mk series) rimfire mags. If you have ever spent a day loading BDM 30 rd mags, you know what I mean. It gets old... quick.
___________________

The dedicated uppers are great. A friend of mine has a really nice Spike's upper. It is fun as hell to shoot and very accurate. You can even get them with the Lothar-Walther target bbls making them super accurate. The problem is they are expensive ($550-$800 on average for the upper only so add cost of lower, furniture, LPK, buffer assembly). If you already have a lower this is less of an issue, but in CA it is probably a featureless or fixed mag build which unnecessarily limits the gun.

Also, the mags are great but not as easy to load as the S&W (or the Colt/Umarex) mags (this matter because you will very easily go through a 525/550 pack in a day - they're just that fun to shoot).

Also, the bolt hold-open feature on these is (like the Colt/Umarex) based on having an empty mag in the well. Drop the mag, the bolt closes. (Bolt does stay open, you probably dont have one therefore you really dont know)

I really like the dedicated uppers, but when you can have a dedicated entire firearm for less than the upper and when that gun has advantages (like easier to load mags and a properly functioning bolt hold-open) over the upper, why would you buy the upper?

Anyways, hope that helps,
-Pete

So which one do you own? Are you a gunsmith?

[Hopi]

So which one do you own? Are you a gunsmith?

The black dog mags/older ciener mags are only last bho functional with the special bho followers.

but you knew that right?

[IsaacGlass]

The black dog mags/older ciener mags are only last bho functional with the special bho followers.

but you knew that right?

Black Dog mags dont work on Colt/Umarex, but you probably knew that, right? (Read the bold red outline)

[Hopi]

Black Dog mags dont work on Colt/Umarex, but you probably knew that, right? (Read the bold red outline)

Geez. The topic of the sentence you commented on in bold red is re: the dedicated uppers and those magazines. He mentioned the Colt/Umarex in parenthesis only as a parallel........

pay attention:

The dedicated uppers are great. A friend of mine has a really nice Spike's upper. It is fun as hell to shoot and very accurate. You can even get them with the Lothar-Walther target bbls making them super accurate. The problem is they are expensive ($550-$800 on average for the upper only so add cost of lower, furniture, LPK, buffer assembly). If you already have a lower this is less of an issue, but in CA it is probably a featureless or fixed mag build which unnecessarily limits the gun.

Also, the mags are great but not as easy to load as the S&W (or the Colt/Umarex) mags (this matter because you will very easily go through a 525/550 pack in a day - they're just that fun to shoot).

Also, the bolt hold-open feature on these is (like the Colt/Umarex) based on having an empty mag in the well. Drop the mag, the bolt closes.

I really like the dedicated uppers, but when you can have a dedicated entire firearm for less than the upper and when that gun has advantages (like easier to load mags and a properly functioning bolt hold-open) over the upper, why would you buy the upper?

Anyways, hope that helps,
-Pete

he was listing it as a fault of the dedicated uppers/mag system.....

[IsaacGlass]

Geez. The topic of the sentence you commented on in bold red is re: the dedicated uppers and those magazines. He mentioned the Colt/Umarex in parenthesis only as a parallel........

pay attention:





he was listing it as a fault of the dedicated uppers/mag system.....

The list is wrong, on the Colt/Umarex the bolt does stay open after the mag has been release. Which he would knew if he own or shot one.

[rodent.22]

Check S&W Forum.com for the real scoop on the 15-22. Every Net EXPERT wants to crap on the Colt/Umarex. Most OWNERS like them.