Winchester Model 1890

[RANGER295]

I have a Winchester 1890 chambered in ".22 Long". I do not think the loading tube is original because it looks a bit different than the one on my friend's rifle. Also the loading slot is the correct size for .22lr. Speaking of which, .22lr feeds and chambers fine in it. The rifle is an early model. I am wondering if it is safe to shoot .22lr in it? If technically safe, would it beat the rifle up? Thanks.

[morrcarr67]

If it really is chambering properly and your only using standard velocity or subsonic LR ammo I don't see why not.

The big question is whether or not it's chambering properly.

https://goneoutdoors.com/difference-22-long-rifle-ammo-5835982.html#ixzz0qYtdKy33

[870classic]

http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm

the working pressures for the 22 long and long rifle are the same. 24,000. Therefore, based on cartridge length and operating pressures, it appears technically safe to shoot a Long Rifle in a 22 Long barrel. I would recommend rechambering for the barrel for the Long Rifle cartridge.

Best regards,
870classic.

[1911su16b870]

Paging Trap55...

[TRAP55]

The diff between a .22 Long and Long Rifle, are the charge, and bullet weight, the case is the same dimension. When you chamber a LR, the bullet is right up against the rifling, no free bore to speak of, and causing a quick pressure spike. Not a good thing to do in a 100+ yr old rifle.
The twist rate on the 1890 was too slow for a .22LR anyhow, accuracy would probably be about minute of barn door.
The twist rate was for the Short and Long. The Model 1906 had the faster twist rate for the .22 LR, and the lifter would feed the S, L, and LR. There are some 1890's made after 1906, that were .22LR only. The ones I've seen were parts clean up rifles.
RANGER295, The fact that it'll feed a LR, leads me to believe some parts have been changed. "IF" it's been altered to .22LR, lets see if it's been done right.
Can you post some pics for me, and the serial # for a proper DOM?
Pics of muzzle and chamber to see if it's been relined.
Pic of the cartridge lifter from a side/front angle.

[RANGER295]

First of all, thank you to everyone that has chimed in so far.

The diff between a .22 Long and Long Rifle, are the charge, and bullet weight, the case is the same dimension. When you chamber a LR, the bullet is right up against the rifling, no free bore to speak of, and causing a quick pressure spike. Not a good thing to do in a 100+ yr old rifle.
The twist rate on the 1890 was too slow for a .22LR anyhow, accuracy would probably be about minute of barn door.
The twist rate was for the Short and Long. The Model 1906 had the faster twist rate for the .22 LR, and the lifter would feed the S, L, and LR. There are some 1890's made after 1906, that were .22LR only. The ones I've seen were parts clean up rifles.
RANGER295, The fact that it'll feed a LR, leads me to believe some parts have been changed. "IF" it's been altered to .22LR, lets see if it's been done right.
Can you post some pics for me, and the serial # for a proper DOM?
Pics of muzzle and chamber to see if it's been relined.
Pic of the cartridge lifter from a side/front angle.

I have not rechambered it but do not know if it was rechambered. I will try to get out to the shop and take some pictures tomorrow. I have never fired it. The rifle is basically part of an estate and I am trying to decide what I want to buy from the estate vs what I want to pass on. I will get great deals on anything I buy. It is in kind of rough cosmetic condition and .22 long is hard to come by and pricey when you find it so I am not sure what I want to do with it. I have not tried to fire it, just chambered a round.

I also have a 1906 that I picked up for free. It is really rough. It has been sitting in the back of the safe waiting for a restoration.

[newbie1234]

I think it's OK to shoot 22LR , according to the ads it can shoot Short, Long , and Winchester RF.
BTW, it's a good price too.

[TRAP55]

I think it's OK to shoot 22LR , according to the ads it can shoot Short, Long , and Winchester RF.
BTW, it's a good price too.

Newb, 1890's were a one chambering rifle only. If it was .22 Short, that's all that it could shoot. .22 Long, and that's all it could shoot. The .22WRF was a different chambering all by itself, the 1800's version of a .22 Magnum, a longer fatter cartridge.
This is because the cartridge lifter is machined for the length of the round. When the 1906 came out, The barrel twist rate was increased for the then new .22 Long Rifle, and Winchester modified the lifter to accept S, L, and LR. The .22WRF for obvious reasons, was still a one chambering specific rifle.
RANGER, my 1890 is chambered in .22 Long too. I changed the lifter out with a .22 Short for the easier/cheaper to find ammo. The 1906 lifter drops right in, but you're still limited to the Short and Long because of the chamber length/barrel twist.

[RANGER295]

Here are some pics...

It is the closest rifle in this picture



The shell in the loading port is a .22lr for reference







Sorry, I took several pictures of the chamber and none of them turned out that great

[RANGER295]

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[RANGER295]

Oh and if my source is correct, it is a 1908 DOM so I guess not that early production.

[RANGER295]

Another question since you seem knowlegeable on these. When I slide the pump forward on the 1906, the magazine tube comes loose. Any ideas on ow to anchor it? I really have not looked closely at it.

[golfish]

Those old pump action gallery guns are so cool. Thanks for sharing.

[TRAP55]

Better pics than I usually get!
The 1890 doesn't look to be relined. It was made about the third quarter of 1907, The B suffix was for a production change. It has a 1906 cartridge lifter like I suspected. So it's good to go with shorts and longs. I have a .2 Long lifter if you want to put it back original.
Looks like the chamber edges have been dimpled in from a dry firing? Hard to see though. If so, needs to be fixed before shooting. Loading port is the correct size for the 22 Long. The end of the tang screw has been filed off, and I can't see the top tang. Some times the wood to metal fit is sloppy, or the wood is just popcorn fart dry, or...it was a longer screw for a tang sight. If it had a tang sight, you can see see the shape of the sight base in the upper tang finish.
Your 1906 from what I can see in the pics, has the mag tube support rings reversed. The rear ring should have a tube retaining pin going cross ways through it, and lines up in a groove on the tube to hold it in place.
Nice family portrait!
Spencer Rifle, Check this thread, http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1411067
Stevens Favorite - Caliber?
Browning or Remington Auto - Caliber?
Win 1894 -Caliber?
Win 1906
Win 1890
All in desperate need of some TLC though. There's a right way, and a wrong way to do it. Wrong way and the gun will be worth more as parts, right way and you'll add a chunk of value. If you want help with that, feel free to shoot me a PM.
If you want those other Winchesters dated, post them here:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=410211

[RANGER295]

Thank you for the info. The whole family with the exception of the Stevens is from the estate. I am trying to decide what to keep and what to pass on.

Better pics than I usually get!
The 1890 doesn't look to be relined. It was made about the third quarter of 1907, The B suffix was for a production change. It has a 1906 cartridge lifter like I suspected. So it's good to go with shorts and longs. I have a .2 Long lifter if you want to put it back original.
Looks like the chamber edges have been dimpled in from a dry firing? Hard to see though. If so, needs to be fixed before shooting. Loading port is the correct size for the 22 Long. The end of the tang screw has been filed off, and I can't see the top tang. Some times the wood to metal fit is sloppy, or the wood is just popcorn fart dry, or...it was a longer screw for a tang sight. If it had a tang sight, you can see see the shape of the sight base in the upper tang finish.
Your 1906 from what I can see in the pics, has the mag tube support rings reversed. The rear ring should have a tube retaining pin going cross ways through it, and lines up in a groove on the tube to hold it in place.
Nice family portrait!
Spencer Rifle, Check this thread, http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1411067
This is a .50-56. Right now it has a centerfire breach block in it but I have the original in a bag in my safe. I would like to keep it for myself but I think it will be a bit more money than my wife will let me throw at it. I am having a hard time pinning down a value so I am thinking about going with a auction house
Stevens Favorite - Caliber?
.22lr... I picked it up years ago for $25. It is in fantastic condition. I am looking forward to my kids being old enough to shoot it.
Browning or Remington Auto - Caliber?
Remington 241 in .22 Short. Also probably going to be a bit expensive for something that will sit in the safe. If it was .22lr I would have more use for it. What do you think it is realistically worth?
Win 1894 -Caliber?
Caliber .25-35. DOM 1905 (SN:342697). Most of the finish is gone and it has some light pitting. The bore is pretty good. The front sight is missing. There is a hairline crack in the fore-end. I am on the fence on this one too. What do you think it may be worth?

Win 1906
This one is rough. The front sight is broken. There is no finish left. There is the mag tube issue. Someone hogged out the grooves on the pump wood. The but plate is missing SN: 246346 B
Win 1890
All in desperate need of some TLC though. There's a right way, and a wrong way to do it. Wrong way and the gun will be worth more as parts, right way and you'll add a chunk of value. If you want help with that, feel free to shoot me a PM.
If you want those other Winchesters dated, post them here:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=410211

I will definitely reach out to you for advice on TLC for the ones I decide to keep. What do you think is a fair price for the pumps as they sit? Once again, thanks.