Using .22 @100y as long range trainer?

[GiddyHitch]

All of the ranges nearby top out at 100y so I'm kicking around the idea of picking up a .22 bolt as a way to build up some long range skills. Will shooting a .22 at 100y help me shoot .308 @ 500-600y well?

Thanks!

[pennys dad]

It is a sound idea but there are a few things to consider.
It doesn't need to be a bolt it can be a semi auto.
Ammo is important. STD 1070 fps will work best. Groupings open up when using HV ammo because of the shift from sonic to sub-sonic.
Your rifle and ammo will give you come ups but depending on what you use your come ups will vary. On my 20" AR22 the rifle is flat to 75 yards than come ups are needed.
We do teach a rimfire advanced course through the Appleseed program.

[RandyD]

I have read that shooting a .22 at 100 yards is comparable to shooting a .308 in a Palma match, which goes out to 1000 yards. I shoot smallbore competition at 100 yards, and it is an exercise in reading and compensating for the wind. I have not shot a Palma match.

[skywalk7]

I'm going to start with 22lr first, because i need to learn trigger control and related stuff. I think that 22 long range ballistics is completely different to 308 and has no sense to train first. Just my opinion.

[Squidward]

I'll echo what was said by pennys dad. FWIW, a group of us locals shoot to 100 yards with .22lr almost every time we shoot. The 10/22 is overwhelmingly the most popular gun used.

[alpha_romeo_XV]

All of the ranges nearby top out at 100y so I'm kicking around the idea of picking up a .22 bolt as a way to build up some long range skills. Will shooting a .22 at 100y help me shoot .308 @ 500-600y well?

Have you decided if you want to learn "Palma" = iron sights and sling, or "F-class" = scope and bipod? In a match course of fire both of these have a single shot load from the prone format. I had trouble at first "cheeking" the stock exactly the same way after each come off to load next round (which will affect how you're looking through the rear sight or scope).

[as_rocketman]

I have read that shooting a .22 at 100 yards is comparable to shooting a .308 in a Palma match, which goes out to 1000 yards. I shoot smallbore competition at 100 yards, and it is an exercise in reading and compensating for the wind. I have not shot a Palma match.

I wouldn't go that far... but subsonic .22 LR to 100 meters is very comparable to .308 to 400 meters, both in terms of elevation and wind effects. This is not hearsay, either; I have hard data. To equal Palma I'd want to stretch the .22 to 200 meters, which is doable provided you've got the elevation travel.

We're planning at least two Rimfire KD Appleseed events at Burro Canyon next year. Targets at 25, 50, 75, and 100 yards, and lots of opportunity to take data. Last one we did had a nice 10 MPH full-value cross breeze, too.

I would argue that there's nothing as good as the real thing, but we did learn quite a bit from assembling the rimfire class. And it's lots of fun besides. So, why not?

[GiddyHitch]

Thanks for the input, everyone.

It is a sound idea but there are a few things to consider.
It doesn't need to be a bolt it can be a semi auto.
Ammo is important. STD 1070 fps will work best. Groupings open up when using HV ammo because of the shift from sonic to sub-sonic.
Your rifle and ammo will give you come ups but depending on what you use your come ups will vary. On my 20" AR22 the rifle is flat to 75 yards than come ups are needed.
We do teach a rimfire advanced course through the Appleseed program.

I'll echo what was said by pennys dad. FWIW, a group of us locals shoot to 100 yards with .22lr almost every time we shoot. The 10/22 is overwhelmingly the most popular gun used.

Any particular reason why you guys prefer a 10/22 to a bolt? Trigger options, equivalent accuracy, or just being able to maintain a consistent cheek weld?

I'm thinking bolt just to better replicate the mechanics with my R700 but I'm open to suggestion.

[usmcchet9296]

This gun will shoot 1 inch groups at 100 regularly as long as its not too windy
image by John Hermesmeyer, on Flickr
These will too as proven in the monthly rimfire matches
IMG_7311 by John Hermesmeyer, on Flickr
with aperture sights
IMG_0163 by John Hermesmeyer, on Flickr
This will shoot 2 to 3 inch groups though I have only tested it will a few different ammo brands as I use it mostly for 2 gun shooting
JPNC22 all bling'd out by John Hermesmeyer, on Flickr

JPNC22 by John Hermesmeyer, on Flickr

I wouldn't say you could shoot a rifle sub-moa at 100 then turn around and shoot a centerfire well at 1000 but if you can shoot a rimfire well at 100 you will have a better time reaching out with a centerfire in the long run

[usmcchet9296]

I'll echo what was said by pennys dad. FWIW, a group of us locals shoot to 100 yards with .22lr almost every time we shoot. The 10/22 is overwhelmingly the most popular gun used.

The problem with the 10/22 is there really isn't a centerfire equivalent

My CZ may not be the perfect bolt gun replacement for a centerfire gun nor is my JPNC22 a perfect replacement for a AR15 but that are closer than a 10/22 and for the price my CZ shoots better than most 10/22's for a comparable price

[as_rocketman]

The problem with the 10/22 is there really isn't a centerfire equivalent

Sure there is -- the M1 Carbine. Although, that rifle is surely not noted for its performance at long range.

I too prefer a CZ bolt for longer rimfire shots. But it all depends on whether you're trying to emulate a larger rifle, or just get comfortable with distance, range, and wind estimation in the abstract. The Ruger works fine for the latter, and there's enough mods out there to make them arbitrarily accurate.

[usmcchet9296]

Sure there is -- the M1 Carbine. Although, that rifle is surely not noted for its performance at long range.

I too prefer a CZ bolt for longer rimfire shots. But it all depends on whether you're trying to emulate a larger rifle, or just get comfortable with distance, range, and wind estimation in the abstract. The Ruger works fine for the latter, and there's enough mods out there to make them arbitrarily accurate.

Touche but really you had to dig up the M1 carbine

[Mk.32]

I just got a CZ 455 American in 22lr, great 100yard rifle.

With decent ammo I can group around 1in or slightly better.

[Click Boom]

Going to 200 would be more like longer distance training, as far as incorporating dope. But shooting 100 with reduced size targets could be helpful for precise aiming and whatnot.

[Furncliff]

For the dollar spent the CZ 455's will give you excellent repeatability at 100 yd. I have several CZ' and Brno's and they are all capable of 1 inch at 100 yards. The Varmint comes with a heavy barrel, that might be closer to the weight of your 700,especially if you mount a heavy scope.

Not knowing how your R700 is stocked, here are some options.

This CZ 452 in a TH stock is my 200 yard plinker. It's .17HMR


The light bullets make this a real challenge with any wind.

This is an aftermarket stock that will fit the CZ's.



But plate and cheek rest are adjustable.