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Kinda pricey rifle so you seem to appreciate quality? How about this. Take the rifle out with irons on it and shoot several hundred rounds through it and see where the rifle leads you as far as exactly what kind of optic you will choose and quality is well worth the $$$ for what ever optic you decide to use . Take your time choosing.
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Last edited by Sunday; 10-21-2014, 6:22 PM.California's politicians and unionized government employees are a crime gang that makes the Mexican drug cartels look like a Girl Scout Troop in comparison. -
Oh my... Here we go on the "cheap Chinese" thing again...If you can afford a decent battle rifle and to shoot 5.56 NATO ammunition, it's beyond me why anyone would be insistent on a cheap Chinese optic that may or may not even hold a zero. I have been down the "great value" road many times, and it usually results in costing me more money in the long run. However, if you are shooting .22lr with Remington Thunderbolt through a Ruger, a Truglo or equivalent will work just fine.
So, by your logic, iphones are cheap crap because they are made in China.
There are a FEW tiers in between S&B, high-end SWFA, etc... and BSA/UTG/Leapers/etc... and I don't see anyone here recommending that sort of cheap crap (though, both the BSA sights I had back in my poor days held zero just fine with 12 gauge slugs and 5.56).
You see, Chinese made is only a disaster if you don't hold the manufacturer to a standard of quality control. Apple holds them to a high standard, and there is no reason that other American vendors can't do the same. PA is one company that does this, but there are plenty of others. There is a world of difference between a $30 red dot and a $170 red dot, though both are made in China. If you insist on $400 red dot, American made...well, it's your money, but it's a bit ridiculous to suggest that proven optics "may or may not" hold a zero. The one negative review I've heard about PA's latest generation of scope (that wasn't about tinting, edge of field-of-view distortion or some other picky personal preference) was from a guy who completely mis-identified the scope as "the same as a" different brand and model when they have different specs and don't even look alike.
The Bushnell offerings get a lot of love too. Not my cup of tea, but they definitely "hold zero."Comment
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Given your budget and the range you'll be shooting, I think you'll be happy with a clone red dot like the Bushnell TRS-25 or the Vortex Sparc.Comment
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Huh? You lost me. Electronics are a completely different category; however, I will say that I am not a fan of cheap Chinese electronics. Apple makes phones for high margin, not high end. I actually think Asian electronics are quite good, but I'll stick to Taiwan, Korea, and Japan.
China does make some good stuff; if you want a very high end wok, there are specialists in China that make top-notch hand made woks. My hand-crafted wok from China was quite expensive, as it was hand made by a skilled tradesman where the wok really has the ability to provide uniform heat throughout. So, there, does that make you happy? I endorse a Chinese made product.Comment
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Vortex isn't my go-to brand right now, but it's solid. The vortex sparc is good to go. Battery life isn't fantastic, but the 6-hour auto-shutdown makes it workable. Just make sure you keep a spare around, since on max brightness, you are going to get about 20 6-hour "sessions" out of that battery. Keep it on medium, and you'll get decent battery life, but a very good idea to have a spare in the buttstock/pistol grip/etc... since it's not a standard battery size (you can find 2032 cells almost anywhere). It's about the same price point as the PA offerings. If memory serves, the anti-glare coating was more of an orange-ish tinge. Not a big fan of the 1-MOA adjustment clicks. For a red dot, 1/2 MOA is more standard, but it's probably not a deal breaker. At 25 yards, it won't make a difference. At 100 yards, you could probably say the same. If you end up taking it out a little longer to 200-300 yards (not unreasonable for a red dot), you might notice it.Given your budget and the range you'll be shooting, I think you'll be happy with a clone red dot like the Bushnell TRS-25 or the Vortex Sparc.
Their strikefire is also around that price point if you don't mind the bigger, heavier tube. It has about 50% more battery life. A friend likes his and has good things to say about it. It also "holds zero."
TRS-25 is starting to get into the realm of "cheap" rather than "budget," but it's not in the realm of BSA/UTG/Leapers. I'm sure it will "hold zero" but don't expect more than a few days of decent brightness if you forget to turn off the sight. Bushnell doesn't mention battery life in their specs. There's a reason for that.Comment
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I don't. Fanboy might be more accurate, if unkind, and still *a little* inaccurate (I've had quite a few pointed suggestions for Dmitri regarding their reflex sights). Or maybe I just appreciate value. Where else are you going to get 50k hours of battery life, decent glass (maybe not to a glass snob, but for the majority of the shooters at this price point, and how good does the glass have to be for 1x magnification?), 2 MOA dot, solid click adjustments, and durable construction for under $200? Holosun is close, since it seems damn likely they use the same factory, but that's a slightly different model (auto-shutoff, but slightly less robust internal electronics if Dmitri is to be believed). I happen to think that PA (in it's latest gen microdots and FFP scope line) offers the most sight for the least amount of money, and it is robust enough to stand up to civilian needs up to and including SHTF. If you need to take your optic on a SCUBA dive, spot .22 cal bullet holes at 500 yards, or hammer on it repeatedly with a 20 pound sledge, yeah, a PA microdot isn't the solution. Neither is anything up to an Aimpoint/ACOG/EOTech. Somehow, I think there are perfectly serviceable civilian optics for a first rifle that are not at that price point. It's also funny how the OP never mentioned any of these extreme needs in his request for optic suggestions.How long have you worked for Primary Arms?
I'm trying to give him (and others who read this) some slightly more nuanced information ***that meets their stated need/question***
OP: Anther option is holosun:
You can buy directly from Holosun, who seems to also be an importer, not a manufacturer, but PA seems to have better customer service, but at the same price.
If you want to push your budget a little, there is also the Burris Fastfire III that a lot of folks like, but with a proper AR-height mount, you are pushing $300, even buying off amazon. 10,000 hour battery life, auto-shutoff, 3MOA dot, but it's a small reflex sight type optic.
Last edited by sunborder; 10-23-2014, 12:25 AM.Comment
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I call BS. Your posts clearly sound like an employee or someone invested in PA. No one can be that big of a fanboy for cheap Chinese optics.I don't. Fanboy might be more accurate, if unkind, and still *a little* inaccurate (I've had quite a few pointed suggestions for Dmitri regarding their reflex sights). Or maybe I just appreciate value. Where else are you going to get 50k hours of battery life, decent glass (maybe not to a glass snob, but for the majority of the shooters at this price point, and how good does the glass have to be for 1x magnification?), 2 MOA dot, solid click adjustments, and durable construction for under $200? Holosun is close, since it seems damn likely they use the same factory, but that's a slightly different model (auto-shutoff, but slightly less robust internal electronics if Dmitri is to be believed). I happen to think that PA (in it's latest gen microdots and FFP scope line) offers the most sight for the least amount of money, and it is robust enough to stand up to civilian needs up to and including SHTF. If you need to take your optic on a SCUBA dive, spot .22 cal bullet holes at 500 yards, or hammer on it repeatedly with a 20 pound sledge, yeah, a PA microdot isn't the solution. Neither is anything up to an Aimpoint/ACOG/EOTech. Somehow, I think there are perfectly serviceable civilian optics for a first rifle that are not at that price point. It's also funny how the OP never mentioned any of these extreme needs in his request for optic suggestions.
I'm trying to give him (and others who read this) some slightly more nuanced information ***that meets their stated need/question***
OP: Anther option is holosun:
You can buy directly from Holosun, who seems to also be an importer, not a manufacturer, but PA seems to have better customer service, but at the same price.
If you want to push your budget a little, there is also the Burris Fastfire III that a lot of folks like, but with a proper AR-height mount, you are pushing $300, even buying off amazon. 10,000 hour battery life, auto-shutoff, 3MOA dot, but it's a small reflex sight type optic.
http://www.amazon.com/Burris-410348-...words=fastfireOriginally posted by barrageComment
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FIFY.
You are either a glass snob, or you are the fortunate 1% of people with perfect eyesight that can use those antiquated iron sights that have been obsolete since Vietnam.
In seriousness, I have not yet had the chance to try any Primary Arms optics, but based on the overall good feedback here, I'd assume them to be "high-end" Chinese optics. When I am given the chance, I'll have a look through them. I like Dimitri, he seems to be passionate and really stand behind his products, so I'd give them a whirl if I needed an optic.
My reference of "cheap Chinese" optics was not directed at PA; it's a generalization about some of the pure rubbish I have seen people using. I don't know why folks tie it with PA if PA is good. There are tons of cheap Chinese optics, of which brands I haven't paid attention, but you all know what I am talking about. Frequently, when I am at the range, folks ask me for help with their optic, such as zeroing, etc. I have been horrified by the disasters that I have seen. I can offer no help when an optic has a reticle that is floating around.
When I get behind a PA, I'll give objective feedback, but I don't have experience to make any claims to the quality.Comment
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As my students would say:Originally Posted by sunborder View Post
I don't. Fanboy might be more accurate, if unkind, and still *a little* inaccurate (I've had quite a few pointed suggestions for Dmitri regarding their reflex sights). Or maybe I just appreciate value. Where else are you going to get 50k hours of battery life, decent glass (maybe not to a glass snob, but for the majority of the shooters at this price point, and how good does the glass have to be for 1x magnification?), 2 MOA dot, solid click adjustments, and durable construction for under $200? Holosun is close, since it seems damn likely they use the same factory, but that's a slightly different model (auto-shutoff, but slightly less robust internal electronics if Dmitri is to be believed). I happen to think that PA (in it's latest gen microdots and FFP scope line) offers the most sight for the least amount of money, and it is robust enough to stand up to civilian needs up to and including SHTF. If you need to take your optic on a SCUBA dive, spot .22 cal bullet holes at 500 yards, or hammer on it repeatedly with a 20 pound sledge, yeah, a PA microdot isn't the solution. Neither is anything up to an Aimpoint/ACOG/EOTech. Somehow, I think there are perfectly serviceable civilian optics for a first rifle that are not at that price point. It's also funny how the OP never mentioned any of these extreme needs in his request for optic suggestions.
I'm trying to give him (and others who read this) some slightly more nuanced information ***that meets their stated need/question***
OP: Anther option is holosun:
You can buy directly from Holosun, who seems to also be an importer, not a manufacturer, but PA seems to have better customer service, but at the same price.
If you want to push your budget a little, there is also the Burris Fastfire III that a lot of folks like, but with a proper AR-height mount, you are pushing $300, even buying off amazon. 10,000 hour battery life, auto-shutoff, 3MOA dot, but it's a small reflex sight type optic.
I call BS. Your posts clearly sound like an employee or someone invested in PA. No one can be that big of a fanboy for cheap Chinese optics.
ROFL LMAO.
Dude, I teach middle school English in the SoCal ghetto. The closest I've ever been to visiting, much less working in Texas was changing planes in Dallas, once. There are a number of people here on Calguns who know me in person. I just happen to like having options somewhere between Trijicon (been there, done that), and BSA.
In any case, I think this thread is pretty well tapped-out regarding optics for shooting 50-100 yards at that price range.Comment
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The first time I ever held or shot an AR was in Army BCT. The setup I had then is still what I prefer. If you live in CA, this is the handiest and most functional set-up you can have on a "battle rifle", IMHO.
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i'd go with a primary arms 30mm gen 2 red dot, comes with a 1 year warranty free replacemet and works flawlessly i have one on my arsenal sam7.Comment
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Primary Arms RDS work fine, I have had several.Comment
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