Scope for SPR

[Tyler94]

Im planning my next build to be an 18'' or 20'' barreled SPR type and I'd like some recommendations for a scope. I know that I should be spending lots more on the optic, but I can't float that right now and I am just dipping my toes into some longer range shooting so I should be okay for now as a beginner.

I'd like to spend around $300 for the optic. Ive been looking at the Primary Arms 4-14 with the ACSS reticle, and it looks really good to me, but Ive also heard lots of good reviews about the SWFA scopes, like the SS 10x42. To be honest, Im not even really sure what type of scope and magnification would be best for my needs. I'd like to shoot it out to 600 yards, but more often I would probably shoot closer distances. Thanks for the advice.

[sunborder]

I really like the PA 4-14x ACSS HUD.

It's sitting on an 18" upper, and I'm getting around 2750 fps with handloaded PPU 75 grain bullets, so +1" high at 100 yards gets my BDC on to about 600 yards. From there, I can aim shoulder or head to get COM hits at 700 & 800 yards.

Of course, with my data table, I can always dial a solution.

[JMP]

What is "SPR type"? You mean like a FN? It'll depend on caliber and such. You wouldn't want the ACSS reticle, IMO, if you aren't shooting .223 or .308--I'd give the PA 4-14 FFP without the ACSS a try first. There's nothing wrong with getting an inexpensive optic for the time being, then upgrade.

[Tyler94]

What is "SPR type"? You mean like a FN? It'll depend on caliber and such. You wouldn't want the ACSS reticle, IMO, if you aren't shooting .223 or .308--I'd give the PA 4-14 FFP without the ACSS a try first. There's nothing wrong with getting an inexpensive optic for the time being, then upgrade.

Sorry, I should have specified. I just meant that it won't be a clone of the MK12 SPR because I'll probably have a longer barrel, but I'd like it to be similar. It'll be .223 though. How come you recommend the 4-14 without ACSS?

[1911ShooterPhil]

The SS 10x42 is a good option. As is the Bushnell Elite 10x40. I used a Bushnell on mine. My buddy used a SS 10x42 on his .308 build. Both are valid options. My Bushnell Elite 10x40 survived many excursions. Use good solid rings and you'll do fine. This will explain why I went with the Bushnell Elite 10x40:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP6GKuu56wo

It's literally that simple. It's a robust optic. Many critics will say it's too much or not enough for an SPR. Mine has the MOA settings, and I have gone through a few. That scope works well and it's very durable. It's a solid optic for the price. Even though it's got a 1" tube, it is still just fine for your intended application. --1911ShooterPhil

[sunborder]

Sorry, I should have specified. I just meant that it won't be a clone of the MK12 SPR because I'll probably have a longer barrel, but I'd like it to be similar. It'll be .223 though. How come you recommend the 4-14 without ACSS?

Some people prefer a mildot over a BDC type reticle. Part of it is because BDC doesn't always line up perfectly with your ballistics (not an issue for .308 or .556 with the ACSS). Part of it is because there is a certain elitism about "learning mildot" and being a "real shooter." Not saying that is the case here, but it's usually one and/or the other when people reject a BDC. The non-ACSS is a bit cheaper, but even the ACSS version is inside your budget. If you want to use the ACSS version as just a mildot scope, you can do that, with the added benefit of the ranging reticle. What JMP is referring to, I think, is that the BDC for the ACSS HUD is calibrated for the 7.62/5.56 cartridges, and wouldn't line up all that well for other rounds if you had an oddball cartridge in your SPR. This makes little sense, though even if he doesn't know what the Mk12 SPR is (see below) since the bolt action SPR he references can be had in only in 7.62/.308.

JMP: As for what an SPR rifle is, if we're talking about auto-loaders (and this is the auto-loader forum), then it's most likely the Mk12 SPR (5.56 DMR type rifle) that is being referred to, which the OP has confirmed. The FN SPR would be more appropriate for the manual-rifle forum, since it's a bolt gun.

[Tyler94]

Does the way that the BDC reticle is calibrated have a big effect on using different bullets? For instance, going from 55 grain, to 62 grain, to 77 grain bullets?

[FMJBT]

I'd opt for something in a low magnification variable scope. Having built and run several SPR's with optics ranging from 1-4X up to 4-14X, I found the lower magnification scopes to be much better suited to the platform for my purposes. I use mine mainly for shooting at steel from 450 out to 650-800 yards. Even at the extended ranges, I tend to favor the wider field of view and larger exit pupil of the 1-4X and 1-6X scopes over the 3-12X and 4-14X scopes. Something like the Primary Arms 1-6X ACSS or 1-4X Leatherwood CMR are a very good pick for an SPR IMHO. On a tight budget, the BSA Tactical 1-6X24 from Midway USA is also a good optic for an all purpose rifle like a MK-12.

[sunborder]

Does the way that the BDC reticle is calibrated have a big effect on using different bullets? For instance, going from 55 grain, to 62 grain, to 77 grain bullets?

To an extent. At under 500 yards it hardly makes any difference if you are just looking to shoot COM, provided you zero with the ammo you plan to shoot. At ranges past 500 yards, it starts to make a difference, and you need to learn to use a ballistics calculator, chronograph your load (or do some fancy adjustments using a smartphone app), and know something about your ammo's ballistic coefficient.

If you want to shoot at tiny targets past 300 yards, it will make a difference, but that can largely be solved by getting to know your pet load and the holdovers. The BDC will get you close, in any event. You can do the same with mildots, but it's not as quick, nor are the mildots as close to your ballistic path as the BDC likely will be.

Generally, in that sort of rifle, you're going to want to shoot 75-77 grainers anyway, handloads preferable, for cost and accuracy. My match loads are about $0.30 per round. Vertical group size is sub-MOA when I do my part.

FMJBT makes some good points, but with my eyesight, I need the higher magnification, even shooting groups at close range. If you can, drop by your local gun store, and look through some scopes out the front window.

[Tyler94]

Thanks a lot for the advice guys. So quality wise, are the Primary Arms scopes pretty good for the money or are there other proven scopes I should be looking at for that price range? And would you recommend I to go with the ACSS reticle or stick with the more standard mil dot? (It will be for 5.56)

[JMP]

This makes little sense, though even if he doesn't know what the Mk12 SPR is (see below) since the bolt action SPR he references can be had in only in 7.62/.308.

From the factory, it will come in .300 WSM. Even so, a .308 receiver can accommodate many short action cartridges with a simple barrel swap.

JMP: As for what an SPR rifle is, if we're talking about auto-loaders (and this is the auto-loader forum), then it's most likely the Mk12 SPR (5.56 DMR type rifle) that is being referred to, which the OP has confirmed. The FN SPR would be more appropriate for the manual-rifle forum, since it's a bolt gun.

This is actually the optics forum.

Anyhow, I recommend learning with a standard Mil or MOA reticle as it provides for more universal experience. If you learn how to use a scope, you can much easier switch to a different cartridge and dial.

[sunborder]

From the factory, it will come in .300 WSM. Even so, a .308 receiver can accommodate many short action cartridges with a simple barrel swap.

They don't advertise that on their website that I could find, but I will take your word for it.

This is actually the optics forum.

So it is. Open mouth, insert foot. Was just reading on the auto-loader forum, brain fart on my part.

[sunborder]

Thanks a lot for the advice guys. So quality wise, are the Primary Arms scopes pretty good for the money or are there other proven scopes I should be looking at for that price range? And would you recommend I to go with the ACSS reticle or stick with the more standard mil dot? (It will be for 5.56)

The last couple of generations of Primary Arms optics have been good to go. The ACSS optics, in particular, have been solid. The PA optics are EASILY the best value (most quality for least cost). There is better glass out there, and I'd personally upgrade to a better mount than the basic PA mounts, but the reticles are state of the art, the glass is pretty darn good, and they hold up pretty well to abuse, if the torture test videos are to be believed (and I see no reason not to). Their sub-$300 scopes are more like $500-600 scopes elsewhere.

I recommend the ACSS for carbine shooting, and the ACSS HUD for DMR-type shooting in 7.62x51 or 5.56. If you are shooting an oddball cartridge, the ACSS HUD becomes less useful, because the BDC won't match up entirely, but the ranging and mildot functions of the reticle are still good to go. There is no reason you can't teach yourself the mil system on the ACSS HUD. It's a little bit pricier than their mildot offering (but still just under $280), and the reticle is "busier" (which I think is the REAL reason that some people don't like it...they just prefer minimalist reticles), which does make the milling just slightly harder, but you aren't losing any capabilities by going with the ACSS HUD.

[ExtremeX]

When I think scopes for SPR/DMR application I always think of something 2.5-10x magnificaion range...

I think the Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x32 FFP is a really nice optic for that application. Good size, weight, magnificaion range, and feature set. It is out of your price range but a great example of something you may want to consider if funds allow.

Given your price range of $300 or less, my personal pick would be the fixed power 6x or 10x SWFA scope.

[PrimaryArms]

Scope for SPR

What is "SPR type"? You mean like a FN? It'll depend on caliber and such. You wouldn't want the ACSS reticle, IMO, if you aren't shooting .223 or .308--I'd give the PA 4-14 FFP without the ACSS a try first. There's nothing wrong with getting an inexpensive optic for the time being, then upgrade.

Yes but if he is shooting .308 or .223 its huge advantage. And its an SPR so its perfect.





-Dimitri