Question on max range on 4x

[timbo399]

I recently acquired an AR 308 with 16" barrel (LWC REPR). When at store I made a quick decision to have them mount a Trijicon Accupoint tr24G on it (the 1-4x with green triangle). They had one on an AR15 at the store and I couldn't believe how quick I could acquire a target on 1x and liked the idea of no batteries. Please keep in mind that I am COMPLETELY new to scopes. I currently own a couple standard 16" AR15 and an M1A Scout, have always used irons with them and they are a blast to shoot but as I get older my eye sight is going a bit (not terrible but not like as when I was in my 20's!). In picking up my AR 308 with Accupoint 1-4x I am now wondering if I have enough magnification. Even though the AR 308 is 16" barrel, my understanding is the REPR can really reach out even with that shorter barrel.

Now for my intended use- As a complete newb to scopes, I would like to take a precision rifle class. I would think that the first thing the instructor would say would be to get at least a 3x9 accupoint (I all of a sudden have a thing for Accupoint scopes). My intended use would be to stretch it out to 400 yards comfortably. I am not looking to shoot .5 MOA groups or anything like that, just consistent pie plate shots at 400 yards and I would be happy. Is 4x enough mag? Thanks for your time and input

[Droppin Deuces]

You're good to go on a human size target at 400 with a 1-4x. I don't know if that would be my personal choice for shooting at little steel swingers from that far away unless I had a ranging reticle. I can do it all day long with my mil dot 3-9x, but it gets pretty challenging hitting a 10" swinger at that range when looking through a 4x ACOG.
I would think that something with a ranging reticle would be more appropriate for a precision class, regardless of the magnification.

[esskay]

Yeah, precision rifle classes typically teach ranging, mils, etc. An Accupoint with the post and chevron is not ideal for that. Luckily for you since you love Accupoints, the Accupoint 3-9x is available with a mildot reticle.

[timbo399]

Thank you both for the feedback. Yes I've been thinking about the Accupoint 3x9 TR20 with mil reticle. Unfortunately it only comes with MOA dials and my math skills seem to get worse w age but I agree that would probably be the better choice. I think it would be a good experience taking some type of class as a I am a novice with scopes and the 1-4x with triangle probably wouldn't allow me to get the best out of the instruction.

Quick follow up question, I have a standard AR with "F" marked front sight and detachable carry handle. The irons are spot on on this carbine but I do think it would be fun to have the 1-4x TR24g on it since carry handle is detachable. Since front sight post does not flip down, do you know if it would get in the way of the TR24G reticle? I have shot friends' AR's that have Eotechs or Aimpoints co witnessed with the front sight but wasn't sure if able to do this with Accupoint and what the result would be when magnified to 4x. I have a one piece Warne tactical mount for the TR24G, wouldn't mind if the reticle simply showed over the front sight, I really don't feel like buying another AR15 just so I can have the flip down sight if I don't have to. Thank you again for your valuable feedback.

[mixicus]

To help you get it into context, take your rig out to Angeles Shooting Range and shoot at the steel out to 600yds. How does it match up with your expectations? I recall an article that put out an idea of 1x for every 100yds is ideal but I can't recall the target dimensions (torso or head). Of course 20x makes seeing the front leg onn the 600yd boar at ASR a whole lot easier.

At a precision rifle class(sniper), you will most likely see the majority of glass being traditional ranging reticles in the range 3.5-10x or 4.5-14x depending on brand. At longer range schools, the 5.5-22x or 6.5-20x type magnifications will abound. Also at precision rifle matches, many of the targets will be 1 or 2 MOA depending on the time element or require position. Those targets are a bit easier with more magnification (up to a point)

Can you do it with a 4x, depends on the class but yes. There's a 'designated marksman' class from a well known group that has no problems with 4x but the course is set for that type of rig and style of shooting not for a long range(600+yds) precision rifle.

Just take a look at your expectations and the rigs that are used by people playing that game (or somethng close) or doing that work then follow their lead.

[timbo399]

Thank you for your feedback. Yes I may have misspoke when I claimed "precision rifle class" as I am not looking to shoot sub moa at 800 yards. It would be more to get my techniques down with the trigger control, scope manipulation, etc as I have never used a scope before and I think your term of Designated Marksmen type shooting is better. You are right, best way is to first go out and try it myself and see what I'm capable of with the 1-4x since I zeroed the rifle at Angeles a while back. No reason to blow more money if I am happily making headshots at 400 yards. Then I can decide on what I want to do. I think 3-9x is enough for me given my intended uses if looking for more magnification. I absolutely hate to spend more money (who hasn't said that different times when it comes to the shooting sports) but also really like the idea of putting that Accupoint 1-4x on one of my AR15's in 5.56. Seems like that is a perfect optic for AR15. True 1x and I am almost as fast as acquiring targets w both eyes open at 1x as with an Eotech or Aimpoint. And 4x is plenty for my AR15 needs.

My previous post mentioned the question os FSB getting in way. Since then I have found on Calguns where a few members have chopped their's off and ended up looking great. Then I could just add an extended rail on my AR15 and add a buis. I do not have the skills to chop off my own fsb but wondering if gunsmith around pasadena/sgv would? Maybe will try Bain and Davis or Ammo Bros gunsmiths. Thanks for your input.

[Droppin Deuces]

I think you'd be better off getting a clamp-on folding front sight/gas block, or a railed gas block and holding on to your current FSB and pins in case you ever want to put it back on.

[ejhc11]

I have a 3-9x40mm Burris E1 and use 9x primarily to shoot out to 600yd plates and upgraded to this scope for its mildot reticule and turrets.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/950843/bushnell-elite-3200-tactical-rifle-scope-10x-40mm-1-10-mil-adjustments-mil-dot-reticle-matte?cm_vc=Z011

If you decide to go the route of more magnification this 10x fixed would be a good scope. Mildot reticule and MIL adjustments for windage/elevation not MOA as most second focal plane scopes. This Bushnell version is only available at MidwayUSA other ones have MOA adjustments.