Optics Recommendation

[dd03]

I need an optics that I can use from CQB range to 800 yards. Any recommendations? It can either be one optic or a combo of optics.

[pacrimguru]

sounds like you want a variable 1-4. depends on your budget, but for a good all around try a trijicon accupoint.

[para38super]

Bump! I am on the same boat.

[gatdammit]

read this section doooods!

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=199939&page=2

800 yards though? I'm gonna get a Accupoint when I can afford it... LaRue has some nice packages that I am looking into...

[dieselpower]

The problem is there isn't an optic that does both great. You have to compromise somewhere or have two optics. This is why you see more and more duel optic set ups.

You can go the Aimpoint T1 with 4x magnifier also. This tends to be more expensive and gives you less of what you want in a long range optic.

Or you can go with a good long range scope and then mount a RDS also. This requires a bit more training. Its not easy using a side mounted RDS.

A good compromise is a Elcan specter. They are a high end combo optic built for the battlefield. The 4x setting isnt that great, its like the x4magnifier, and the CQB setting has a 70mm eye relief. Eye reliefs are bad in CQB unless you are very familiar with the firearm.

Its your call what you go with, the trick is to understand the flaws in your set up and work around them. People make the mistake of playing on the strengths of a set up and ignore the weakness. Every set up has a weakness.

[reidnez]

0-800 is pretty broad usage--LOL! It's hard to expect one scope to perform well in CQB and at extreme range, the design requirements are so different for both. Since you mention a combination of optics, I would recommend a reflex sight (Aimpoint, etc.) for CQB, and a proper scope in the 10x range for long range work. But as the others mentioned, there are a few 1-4x scopes on the market which may be what you're looking for. They go from maybe $150 to $2k. What's your total budget?

http://bushnell.com/products/scopes/riflescopes/elite4200/421424M/

http://leupold.com/tactical/products/scopes/mark-4-cqt-riflescopes/mark-4-1-3x14mm-cqt/

http://trijicon.com/specialties/hunting.cfm

[pacrimguru]

actually i reread your questions, and yea, getting 0 to 800 yards is pretty extreme. you will have to run 2 different optics on your rifle if that's the range that you're seriously thinking about shooting.

for 0-100 you'll need a small red dot mounted offset like a aimpoint T-1 or a smaller and even lighter Docter or JPoint. for the longer ranges up to 800 you'll need a proper magnified scope. look into nightforce, us optics, etc.

[bombadillo]

ACOG with a red dot, effective but not optimal. S&B, higher end Leupold tactical, Meopta, Premier Reticles, US Optics SN-4s, and a handful of others but 1-4x is going to be awful hard at 800 yards without a REALLY clear scope.

[PatriotnMore]

I am going to throw my hand in favor of the IOR 3x25 QR-TS 30mm QCB, fixed 5x magnification, I looked at all the name brands, and the best bang for the buck, compact, and glass, this was what I went with.

I added a micro red dot attached to the scope for short distance, fast acquisition purposes.

The Acog is fantastic, the US optics, NF, Trijicon, all great scopes and you would do well to own them. I wanted a certain look, features, and quality glass, that's why I choose the IOR. I sacrificed the 1-4 variable feature, but honestly since owning the IOR, I don't think I sacrificed anything.

[Grassninja]

If you have the money, and are willing to wait a couple more months, Premier, S&B, and Leupold are making 1-8x "short dot" type scopes that would fit your requirements well IMO.

[tacticalcity]

Dieselpower pretty much said everything I wanted to right from the start. I just want to point out a few minor differences in opinion on brand choices and emphasize some of his points if that is alright.

The problem is there isn't an optic that does both great. You have to compromise somewhere or have two optics. This is why you see more and more duel optic set ups.

+ 1 on this. You are asking for something that does not exist. You are going to have to pick one primary focus, CQB (25 yards to face-to-face) or long range. If you don't you will have an optic that sucks at both, I learned this the hard way, as you probably will. Since you'll probably ignore myself and Mr. DieselPower here.

You can go the Aimpoint T1 with 4x magnifier also. This tends to be more expensive and gives you less of what you want in a long range optic.

While I agree it gives you less long range, a red dot magnifier combo gives you the absolute best close range, and an OK medium-long range option. If CQB is really on the menu. This is the best setup. If CQB is some imaginary scenerio and it is going to be a range whore, then there are better options.

Or you can go with a good long range scope and then mount a RDS also. This requires a bit more training. Its not easy using a side mounted RDS.

This is a great example of an ideal range whore setup. If the primary focus is distance, and CQB is not a realistic necessity, but a .01% possibility then this would be an acceptable way to go. If you have an unlimited budget consider the Trijicon RMR Duel Illumination Optic as your backup.

Any time you run an optic off to the side (or even worse on top) it becomes infinately harder to use. You will need to spend as much time and energy becoming proficient with your backup as your primary. 99.9999% of the people running this setup don't do it. Because the backup is harder to use and not as much fun.

A good compromise is a Elcan specter. They are a high end combo optic built for the battlefield. The 4x setting isnt that great, its like the x4magnifier, and the CQB setting has a 70mm eye relief. Eye reliefs are bad in CQB unless you are very familiar with the firearm.

I just got done reading an article about how E-Clan has issues maintaining zero. Goverment bought a ton of these, and our operators are refusing to use them. I do not have first hand experience with this, but I would want to read a heck of a lot more on the subject before buying an E-Clan optic.

Instead I would go with one of the many tube style variable optics starting at 1x. If you are broke, check out the Millet DMS-1. If you have a budget check out the Trijicon Accupoint. Burris and Leupold both make great versions of these as well.

You will have tube shaddow issues in CQB however. It simply is not as good in the CQB role as a red dot. However, you will be able to go from magnified to non-magified in hurry if needed.

People also run red dots off the side of these, on the off chance somebody snuck up on them while they were focused on a long range target and needed to take a close-up shot and did not have time to dial it back down (also so they don't have to deal with scope shaddow issues) but again, they are a lot harder to master than you might imagine.

Its your call what you go with, the trick is to understand the flaws in your set up and work around them. People make the mistake of playing on the strengths of a set up and ignore the weakness. Every set up has a weakness.

Agreed. On a final note, notice no one mention the ACOG with a red dot on top. Too limited of an optic, and on top is a terrible place for a red dot. Very hard optic combination to master.

[esskay]

If you have the money, and are willing to wait a couple more months, Premier, S&B, and Leupold are making 1-8x "short dot" type scopes that would fit your requirements well IMO.

Based on your criteria, this is the way to go. And it's going to be expensive!

Otherwise you'll have to do the dual optics thing.

[BONECUTTER]

My SPR is set up with a USO 1.8-10x.

At 1.8 you can use it for close range stuff but it will be slower than a typical red dot.

[esskay]

Instead I would go with one of the many tube style variable optics starting at 1x. If you are broke, check out the Millet DMS-1. If you have a budget check out the Trijicon Accupoint. Burris and Leupold both make great versions of these as well.

You will have tube shaddow issues in CQB however. It simply is not as good in the CQB role as a red dot. However, you will be able to go from magnified to non-magified in hurry if needed.

I just have to add here that you might be surprised how fast you can be with a good, bright 1-4x optic with good glass. Superset and I have both run timed drills back to back with Eotech/Aimpoints vs. Meopta/Accupoints. Superset has posted better times on some classifiers with his Accupoint than his red dot. I have gone both ways, sometimes faster with the Eotech and sometimes faster with the Meopta. For me personally, I believe on average I am a little bit faster with the Eotech at close range, but with my Meopta I do not notice shadow issues (except as noted below) and am very fast with it. Shoot a lot of 3-gun matches with your optic and you'll get good with it.

Where the red dots are really superior to these 1-4x variable optics are in unconventional positions (e.g. try supine position with an optic that has eye relief... you can do it but it kinda sucks) and shooting from your support side (unless you are really good with your off-side).

However, want to see just how fast you can do close range shooting with an Accupoint? Watch this!!

[FMJBT]

The new Leatherwood CMR would probably suit your needs. It's a 1-4X, so it's not the ideal choice for long range shooting, but it has a decent BDC reticle that should go a long way towards improving it's long range performance when compared to simple dot or crosshiar reticle scopes. BDC's are almost never perfectly calibrated for a given rifles trajectory, but they will get you close enough at long range to get on target, or at least on target with follow up shots. Lowest price I can find on them is Natchez for $250.00:

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=LFCMR14X24

(currently out of stock )