Why is there so much BS around when it comes to affordable scopes?

[HapHazard]

I'm shopping for something with a bit higher magnification than the SS10x42M (Super Sniper) currently on my long-range rig. My budget is not big, so I've spent a lot of time looking at the various offerings from low-cost makers.

A few of the companies, like Falcon and Millett, seem legit, but it's quite obvious that many others are trying to hide the fact that their scopes are entirely manufactured in China by firms like the Danyang Situ Town Weikang Optical Factory. Head over here and tell me if you don't see what I'm talking about.

http://shanghailowen.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-200297326/Riflescope.html

Anything look familiar?

Now in my mind there is nothing wrong with a Chinese-made scope as long as quality control is kept high, which seems to be a major problem. Chinese business practice appears to be a game of screw the client, but that's another discussion.

My problem is that so many manufacturers try to make it look like their products are made in the US or Europe when it's absolutely impossible for them to be given the labor and other costs of manufacturing. The scopes are made in Asia, China most often. Period.

Hiding behind weasel words and then marking up identical products to in some cases 100 times what the honest competition sells for is not good business practice. And, given the power of the Internet and advice from good folks like those here, will lead to failure. Despite a sucker being born every minute, most buyers are not going to spend nearly $1K on an (insert company name) scope when they can head over to one of the auction sites and pick up the exact same thing, with a different logo, for 10 or 20 percent of that.

I just don't understand it.

[Fjold]

A lot of the Chinese scopes are not the same item, made in the same factory, they are copies.

Let me give you some information on Chinese business practices:

While I was working in China they were having the trial (one day) of the owner of a trucking company who actually cut a hole through the Great Wall to keep from having to pay the 10 Yuan (~$1.42) toll for his trucks on the nearby toll road.

That is a normal business practice there. Remember the company who cut pet food mix with poison because it fools the labs and gives a higher protein content? Or the baby formula that was tainted with chemicals for the same reason and wound up killing a number of babies?

Everytime I would go shopping at the big department stores there, the sales clerks would take my purchases and wrap them up all pretty in fancy paper before I got to the register to pay for them and have them all stacked up ready to go. My secretary would unwrap every single package and inspect it to make sure that they didn't switch anything out between the time that I selected items and when I went to pay.

[MAX100]

Millett has said from the start that their scopes are made in China. Many have been spreading that the Falcon scopes are made in the UK. We now know that they are Made in China and without being labeled as so.

Email response from falcon optics:

asked:
RE: falcon optics and who makes them, where they are made or assembled , where all the parts come from and if they are the same as Famous Maker scopes/parts/etc........ Any information about this available?

response:
"We have partners in China, Japan, South Korea and recently Philippines. All materials will be sourced from there, as will major assembly's. Unfortunate it is not viable for us to UK manufacture given the price point of our models. Even if we could then raw glass would still have to be brought in from Japan. We have good quality testing practices here in the UK though. We also do some small assembly in the UK too (this actually makes for a more thorough testing process). We are very 'hands on' given the price point. Send me more info on Famous Maker model and we shall give you a complete answer when we return on Monday. If its the 4-14 Front Focal then we think we know it."

Falcon is being vague but it is up to the customers to do follow ups and question further.

We know know they are not manufactured in the UK, Japan and the Philippines because they just came on board. That leaves China or S Korea. China is named first on the list. The email says that the "Raw" glass is brought in from Japan. Who shapes, polishes and does the reticle. China manufactures are setup to make their own glass from start to finish.

I suspect that the only thing being done in the UK is packaging and installing and switching out the outer turrets.


GC

[Justin3]

I was going to buy a Millett but then I went with Nikon. A lot of things are made in China.
I was told the general business feel is if they aren't making that certain item your looking for in China, they will build a factory and start making it for you. They pretty much make everything and anything out there.
Some stuff is good quality, some stuff not so much.

I dont like skimpping on scopes though. I hate buying stuff that is cheaper when in the long run, it'll screw you over. I like to buy right the first time.

[Suvorov]

I agree, and it can be confusing. I'm right now looking for a Red Dot sight for my new 22LR AR build in the $100-200 range. I've been looking at the Bushnells, Tascos, Millets, Burris, and Nikon's. It seems like each of these companies sell a sight that looks/specs exactly like one that the other company sells. I can imagine that all of these sights are being contracted out to shops in China and Korea for each company. What I want to know is if there is really any difference? Take for example the Tasco Pro-Dot and the Burris XTS, all my research into the matter (I have yet to be able to compare them side by side) indicates they are the exact same sight, but the price difference is $50 or so. I don't mind spending the extra if I get something in return (better QC, slightly better optics, etc) but otherwise it just makes this confusing.

[PeterGenius]

Its sad to get screwed on shotty products like that. I once bought an Aimpoint scope and not only were the engraved logos completely different (horrible embossing job), the knobs were obviously not meant to match the scope. Just say Leupold and be happy.

[rksimple]

Just say Leupold and be happy.

And you'll get a scope that has many of its subassemblies made in china.

In low end optics, get a scope that has a good reputation for customer service. All scopes break and its what happens then that matters. Bushnell has good CS and a decent product for the money. Same with burris. Nikon has good glass. Falcons website has been down for how many months now? Doesn't seem good. You pay your money and you take your chances.

[mikecro1]

....the chinese even make fake eggs!!!

http://damncoolpics.blogspot.com/2009/07/man-made-fake-eggs-sold-in-china.html

[MAX100]

The Chinese make what they are paid to make in most cases. You pay them make cheap junk and that's what they make.


GC

[chefdude]

you can get a Konus M its their top of the line with canting bubble and illuminated reticle its a great scope, got one on my FN PBR..clear glass and paid $380...better than my Nikon..and their customer service rocks

[Sniper3142]

I have a Millet DMS-1 1-4X scope on my M4gery.

That POS broke last week. It dropped out of my safe back onto the scope (the scope was facing outboard). It hit the floor and the back section (right at the power ring) was bent down approximately 20 degrees. It wasn't a particulary hard hit but it was more than that scope could withstand.



My Leupold and USO scopes have taken far more abuse and still work great.

I'll be replacing it with either a Trijicon TR24 or something very similar soon.

The saying "buy once, cry once" is popular for a reason!!!

[MAX100]

It hit the floor and the back section (right at the power ring) was bent down approximately 20 degrees. It wasn't a particularly hard hit but it was more than that scope could withstand.

The DMS-1 is a very durable heavy built scope. The impact happened in just the right place because that's a vulnerable area on all scopes. . I have seen pictures of a NF scope that was badly damaged by just falling off a table onto a hard floor. It wasn't attached to a rifle which would have greatly added to the impact force.

GC

[LibertyOptics]

Bushnell has good CS and a decent product for the money. Same with burris. .

As a guy who makes his living selling this stuff, my reply is no, no, no freaking no!!

Scott

[rksimple]

That bad huh? I know we should just buy a bunch of vortex scopes, but they need to get some more features.

[razorx]

For those with an astronomy hobby, the glass coming out of China has improved a great deal over the past 10 years plus quality in manufacturing has been steadily improving as well.

As earlier stated in this thread, products are manufactured to specs with the target cost model. China can make quality products, maybe not zeiss/nikon/takahashi but definitely can hit quality levels good enough for most mortals assuming the importer has the right spec/cost constraints.