Red dot advise

[44fred]

I do not have any experience with red dot optics on handguns. My aging eyes are finding it more and more difficult to acquire a good sight picture. The last 25 years or so my handgun training have been with both eyes open.
I ordered a new 10MM for hiking during better weather here in Wyoming, retired here a few months ago.
One thing I do know is the optic must have an enclosed emitter.
What say you ol? wise one? Budget is $500+/-.
Thanks in advance, Fred

[D.A.V.I.D.]

Ive had several 509t’s, aimpoint Acro, Acro p2, Steiner MPS and and eps carry. I’ve had to have 2 509t’s replaced, a Steiner MPS replaced and an Acro p2 replaced. Acro and 1 of the 509t’s had the seal break. Other 509 and the Steiner had the same exact problem they were coming apart from the inside, little pieces of metal just loose inside the optic. So my experience has been more problems with enclosed than open. Eps is pretty new and don’t have many rounds through it to say if it will hold up or not. One of the 509t’s that I got as a replacement was right when the version 2 came out and it has a lot of rounds through it on a rifle and pistol with no problems. The Acro p2 I got right when it came out so had it for about a year with at least 5,000 rounds before the seal came undone and stuff started getting in it. The MPS replacement has also seen a lot of rounds and held up.

The Steiner I really like, probably the most.

[skeeter149]

I use a holosun eps carry 6moa and love it. Went red because my eyes hate green. Works great with my astigmatism but I have 0 experience with other dots. Install went well. Brightness great and I like the closed emitter

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

You don't necessarily have to have an enclosed emitter. If your gun is going to be exposed to the elements routinely it's a consideration, and so is the emitter fogging due to temperature disparity. Whatever you decide, I'd look through some red dots first before buying. Your eyes are unique and you might have a preference on color, reticle, and reticle size.

What 10MM did you purchase?

[Munny$hot]

Ive had several 509t?s, aimpoint Acro, Acro p2, Steiner MPS and and eps carry. I?ve had to have 2 509t?s replaced, a Steiner MPS replaced and an Acro p2 replaced. Acro and 1 of the 509t?s had the seal break. Other 509 and the Steiner had the same exact problem they were coming apart from the inside, little pieces of metal just loose inside the optic. So my experience has been more problems with enclosed than open. Eps is pretty new and don?t have many rounds through it to say if it will hold up or not. One of the 509t?s that I got as a replacement was right when the version 2 came out and it has a lot of rounds through it on a rifle and pistol with no problems. The Acro p2 I got right when it came out so had it for about a year with at least 5,000 rounds before the seal came undone and stuff started getting in it. The MPS replacement has also seen a lot of rounds and held up.

The Steiner I really like, probably the most.

^^^^THIS^^^^ except I don't like the Steiner LOL. Wyoming does have some hash weather for sure. I wouldn't feel comfortable recommending any MRDS closed emitter RDS not only because the failure the above poster mentioned, but I have also seen a lot of the MRDS fog internally which is a real concern for you weather. On a non enclosed emitter RDS window fogging and rain drop accumulation can be alleviated with applying Rain X, Chappstick, or Cat Crap onto the widow of the optic. If RDS size is an issue then I'd opt for RMR type II 6moa but a 3moa will do just fine. The reason for the larger dot is for some it's a lot easier to pick up quickly. If you're on a budget a Holosun 407C series RDS will suffice, but be mindful of the battery tray screw and gasket coming loose and ejecting into outer space. Using a pain pen/nail polish to witness mark the screw and checking it often will eliminate those problems. If size isn't a problem an ALG 6 second aimpoint T1/T2 setup is the way to go and there are/where holsters available for your specific platform.

[theLBC]

whatever you get, remember you don't have to look for the dot.
use your muscle memory from years with iron sights and when you present the gun like you have so many times, the dot will be there.
lots of people start "looking for the dot" as they are presenting, and that just slows you down.

jmo

[44fred]

Thanks guys, I’ll do some shopping. My LGS has a pretty big selection so I’m sure I’ll find something. Seems there is still a ways to go with this technology. Nothing seems to be 100%.
Maybe someone makes a cover that will pop out of the way when the pistol is removed from a holster.
BTW, I ordered a FN510 tactical in black.

[Zenderfall]

Make sure you can actually see a DOT, and not multiple dots, a blob, or a star due to possible astigmatism. It's an issue many older people have, and I'm starting to get a tiny bit of.

dot optics, unlike guns, can be fully tested fully at the LGS. There's no dry-firing-is-different-from-real-firing with dot optics.
Turn them on and look through them.
See if you like dots, rings, arrows, or whatever the reticle is.
See if you like red or green dots.
See if you like big windows or small.
See if auto-off, shake-awake, solar backup, auto-brightness (ugh!) are important to you. Some optics have none of those features, some few, some have all.
I saw some good names up there. Holosun, Trijicon, Aimpoint all make good enclosed emitters.

The more I use optics, the more I found that I didn't really need them, fiber-optics for me are good enough. Plus I don't have to worry about the battery changing and (eventual) failure. But I don't put down anyone who wants them. They're a huge help and nice to look through.

Good luck!

[One in the pipe]

Can you mount a red-dot on your pistol? Does your budge include milling the slide? That's another $200.

[44fred]

Yes I can mount a red dot on the FN510.

[Oldjedi]

Here are the selection steps I would suggest for a red dot.

First choice is to consider push button electronic switch vs. a mechanical switch. Electronic switches will last longer (probably forever) but are pricey. Mechanical switches will eventually fail. This youtube video will show you how and where they fail and how to fix them... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exdi5V-_s6Q

Second choice is open vs. tube type red dots. My recent purchase is ... https://www.primaryarms.com/primary-...s-5.56-reticle It weighs 6.5 oz. It's a little big on my rimfire pistol but not disproportionately big. Scopes on Browning and Ruger rimfires attach to the frame, so weight is not an issue.

There are undermount brackets for centerfire pistols. Most have picattiny rails for optics. I saw one for $10 on ebay with free shipping! It is another option to consider if you don't want to drill and tap the frame.

Third choice is the reticle. I aim better with a donut style reticle. The CQB reticle on the Primary Arms is not donut shaped but offers similar features.

Last, but not least, is your budget!

[parts kit]

if the main motivation for the closed emitter is to protect against weather, like some others have said theres a few basically weatherproof open emitters, for example the trijicon rmr which is aging for sure but is has been extremely reliable for plenty of guys who put really hard wear on their guns in all weather conditions. They can also be had for around ~$350 or so used. Safariland RDS holsters also do have a a cover for the sight that flips out of the way when drawn which helps keep water out of there.

[44fred]

I’d much rather have something like the trijicon rmr for its small size and proven toughness. Please explain how an open emitter is weatherproof.
My research indicates that if anything lands on the emitter, you either blow it off, wipe it off if you can or you have no dot. Dirt, mud, rain or snow are all very real possibilities. If you need it in an instant, do you have time to clean? I’m thinking not. Serious question.

[rodralig]

I?d much rather have something like the trijicon rmr for its small size and proven toughness. Please explain how an open emitter is weatherproof.
My research indicates that if anything lands on the emitter, you either blow it off, wipe it off if you can or you have no dot. Dirt, mud, rain or snow are all very real possibilities. If you need it in an instant, do you have time to clean? I?m thinking not. Serious question.

Let us be honest here... How many CalGunners with RDS actually did training specific to Red Dots? Including failure drills/scenarios, just like you said, water/dirt, etc. gets into the emitter.


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[mej16489]

Let us be honest here... How many CalGunners with RDS actually did training specific to Red Dots? Including failure drills/scenarios, just like you said, water/dirt, etc. gets into the emitter.


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I've had rain and snow on the glass cause all kinds of havoc, but I've never once had my emitter occluded... I'm not say it can't or won't ever happen...but I'm certainly not losing sleep over the possibility.