I think I need a riser (or taller rings)?

[aplinker]

First off, if it hasn't been mentioned, NEVER bridge the receiver and rail with a scope. It's a great way to break it.

I would suggest a permanent riser (like the YHM) and QD rings. Warne makes high QD rings for a reasonable price - I bet the x-high would work and get you over the BUIS. If something goes wrong, pull the scope and you can use the rings over the rail mount.

[glock_this]

it was not mentioned per se, but I have said several times that 1 goal was trying to get both rings up on the flat top and the front ring off the rail. I had not read/heard it could break a scope, but will take your word for it. but in the current config, I just cannot as you can see.

BTW, given the space I have behind the BUIS, I cannot fit the YHM full scope mount. I have about 5" and the YHM is over that.. no biggie I know, but I really like the cleaner concept that KaTooM did with a split set of 2 rings on 2 QD versus a full flat top riser with 2rings/2 QD on it. I looked at Warn before, but their tallest rings are .935" + a .50" raiser - like the YHM mini mounts or full length scope mount - will not give me what I need. my rings are tall enough, I just need to get the YHM mini spacers to do it.

on a side note... ever seen an aftermarket set of QR finger knobs that can replace the hex nut or slotted nut on most risers so you at least could have a finger quick release action versus using a tool to turn the nuts?

UPDATE: In talking to ARMS, I would be looking at +$200 for the setp to do #35 high rings, #35 QD mount, #37 1" ring spacers - to rich for my blood on 'this' budget scope.

[maxicon]

My experience with thumbscrews is that they don't always hold reliably when finger tightened. I always give them a bit of an extra turn with a tool. For the slotted thumbscrews, that can be a coin, and for the flat ones, I use an adjustable wrench.

The YHM riser I used in post #6 isn't super expensive, and leaves a lot of room on the rail. It's also got a lot of front-back flexibility. It doesn't look like it would be that stable, but mine's held up just fine so far. It's not QR, but it's popular for flexibility and lots of forward offset without spending too much.

A fair number of people bridge the rail and handguard with rings, but the effectiveness depends a lot on how tight the handguard attachment at the delta ring is, how close to the exact same level they are, and how sturdy the handguards are.

Even a little offset will put a good bit of stress on the scope and can cause wandering zero.

However, bridging the gap with a rail, like the long base YHM, takes the stress off of the scope. There's still some risk of zero shift, but the closer you are to the delta ring, the less it will move for a given set of conditions.

As for mounting above the carry handle, the majority of people who actually use optics this way are using red dots, generally in a CQB environment where the extra height can be a benefit, as you don't have to drop your head down to the stock to get a sight picture.

This can work for fast, close shooting, if you train this way, but for longer ranges where you need to spend more time lining things up, the lack of a cheek weld makes it more difficult, expecially with a magnified scope.

Still, people do it, and some like it.

Personally, I'd leave the irons off and try out what you've got - that'll make all this come into focus for you a lot more quickly, and you'll have a much better idea what you need to do next.

ETA:
The Warne Maxima QD Ultra-high are 0.935" to the ring, or 1.435" to the centerline. The non-QD don't come this high, but the QD do. This, with the half-inch risers, would give you 1.9".

[glock_this]

thanks for the tips. I have the YHM mini risers coming (they were affordable enough to go ahead and just get) to get the .50". We will see next week IF I even need them, but I decided for my trip to CO I would rather have them if I am at the range and want to put them on versus not have and wish I did. If I do not need them, I will send back or keep/sell.

I looked at the Warne A204L as you mentioned before - since they are QD I like the idea - but since my rings and the coming spacers will work, I will wait to see if my setup works as I think and if it does, meaning I needed the spacers, I will likely move to the Warne rings as I know my Barska rings are budget as well and I understand rings/mount are pretty key so would not mind springing up for 'affordable' rings that are QD and give the height. But, I will check fitment and function on my cheaper rings first. in the end, I would be under $100 for better and more solid mount that is QD and gets me the height - thus far, this seems like the most affordable option.

[glock_this]

Just got back from a nice CO vacation. While I was there, Cactus tactical sent me out those YHM mini risers and it made all the difference.

1 tip on those YHM mini risers.. they are not 2 piece & clamp together. they are 1 piece and pressure on the bolt closes them tight on the rail. SO, this mean you must slide off a BUIS to get them on your rail. Keep this in mind if you have already sighted in your iron/BUIS sights. I did not even notice this in the photos when I purchased so given all other rings and rail attachments, was surprised when I realized this upon opening the package.

[quackaddict]

Here is a free way of repairing and have a more "usable" gun.

Remove the flip up iron sight. Move scope back. Problem Solved.

[buffybuster]

Just got back from a nice CO vacation. While I was there, Cactus tactical sent me out those YHM mini risers and it made all the difference.

1 tip on those YHM mini risers.. they are not 2 piece & clamp together. they are 1 piece and pressure on the bolt closes them tight on the rail. SO, this mean you must slide off a BUIS to get them on your rail. Keep this in mind if you have already sighted in your iron/BUIS sights. I did not even notice this in the photos when I purchased so given all other rings and rail attachments, was surprised when I realized this upon opening the package.

I haven't read every post, so forgive me it I am restating. If your rings are not QD rings and you can't co-witness, then what's the use of having the BUIS?

[maxicon]

Even if they're not QR, an allen wrench will have the scope off pretty quickly. If you want your BUIS in zeroed and ready to go, it's a good idea to leave it in place.

Leaving the BUIS off is an option, but then you may not have it with you when you need it (I even forget stuff like mags now and again, let alone backup optics, but that's me), and it'll need to have the zero checked and possibly adjusted on re-install.

[glock_this]

Remove the flip up iron sight. Move scope back. Problem Solved.

that was all talked about early on, but not my goal. so, that was not done.

I haven't read every post, so forgive me it I am restating. If your rings are not QD rings and you can't co-witness, then what's the use of having the BUIS?

yes, covered this earlier. no, clearly I cannot flip up the BUIS and cowitness.. the point is, there is no reason to remove the BUIS. They are there and exist for a reason. IF that scope goes bad, a few turns of the ring knobs and I could remove it and still have the BUIS and be up and running, with something to sight with, ASAP. A simple addition of 2 risers addressed my original issues and allows for a setup that has multi-usage with the least amount of adding, moving, removing, cost, etc. win win.

Even if they're not QR, an allen wrench will have the scope off pretty quickly. If you want your BUIS in zeroed and ready to go, it's a good idea to leave it in place.

Leaving the BUIS off is an option, but then you may not have it with you when you need it (I even forget stuff like mags now and again, let alone backup optics, but that's me), and it'll need to have the zero checked and possibly adjusted on re-install.

bingo! exactly what I would say and why i left them. no harm in having them, potential harm if not.

here are newer photos with it mounted with the final setup, seems to work for me after all is said and done.