Just ordered a Steiner DBAL-D2.

[tacticalcity]

Update:

Changed my order to a DBAL-D2. Not just because of the comment below, but also because I was pretty torn to begin with. So we'll see. Gonna be a bit before it gets here.

Original Post:

Gonna take about a month to get it. My supplier special orders them. But saved me some serious money by waiting. Everywhere else would have cost me about $500 more.

Had an Steiner DBAL-i2 PEQ for a while that I never got around to using, and just sold. Two actually. Sold them both to fund this. Only downside to the DBAL-I2 PEQ 9007 was that it lacked the slaved visible laser that the A3 has. So zeroing could only be done under night vision. This one lets you zero during daylight with the visible laser and since it is slaved to the IR laser doing so also zeroes the IR. That lets you double check your zero whenever you like. Night vision or not. Sounds like a minor thing, but it is EXTREMELY convenient.

Would have LOVED to have gotten a B.E. Meyer MAWL. But those cost a hair under $2900 before tax and shipping. This DBAL-A3 cost me WAY under that...and was still a bit of a stretch.

The downside to just about all civilian legal laser is not the laser but the illuminator. If it is generated by a laser diode then it's bound to be pretty weak when compared to the military version. This is to protect people's eyes. The Steiner DBAL-D2 gets around this by using a LED IR illuminator. But it is bigger, bulkier and heavier. It also has a bit of a visual signature down range and can, if people downrange are extremely observant, give away your position. Not as much of a problem close in when you are running and gunning, but could present a big problem at long range. The B.E. Meyer MAWL uses a different technology to get a super bright illuminator, as bright or brighter than the DBAL-D2 without a visual signature. It is as good or better than other brand's class 3 (military only) solutions while still being eye safe and civilian legal. But it is just too pricey for me right now.

In any case, can't wait to get it and take another course. I'm overdue.

[Munny$hot]

@tacticalcity The IR illuminator on the A3 is anemic 75 yards in urban lighting and maybe @ 120 in very rural areas. As for the slight pinkish glow of the D2 it can only be viewed at @ 2 degrees at a distance @ 100 yards, but you'd really have to be looking for it. JW Ramp did an extensive photo shoot showing the signature of different LAMs from the D2, MAWL C1+, PEQ15, PEQ2, etc here: https://www.jwramp.com/news/downrang...red-signatures

IMHO not having the reach/throw of a powerful illuminator is more of a handicap vs learning light discipline for IR/white light/lasers which negates the visible signature of an IR illuminator. A powerful illuminator is also used for seeing across a white light lit street, under/inside cars, under deck/porches, inside of windows, etc something that a A3, 9007, APTIAL-C, etc can not do and will fall flat on it's face.

As far as having a slaved vis for zeroing it is not necessary and I never use it due to it will only be slaved at 1 distance set by the manufacture and it is very limited to see during daylight hours. The easiest and most accurate way to zero is at night simply over lamp your IR laser to you already zeroed RDS at the furthest distance you can see, that way your hold overs/unders will be the same. The furthest distance between your bore and your laser/RDS is @ 1.75" and will only get closer until the 2 points intersect.

Vis lasers have a few uses such as unconventional shooting positions, a backup to your backup sighting system, and finding trip/IED trigger wires.

I have used a D2, MAWL C1+, 9007, APTIAL-C, OTAL-C IR etc and can tell you the D2 is absolutely the best bang for the buck out there. If you needed to change your illuminator beam pattern on the fly, then the MAWL would be the better choice. The A3 and 9007 are great for inside of structures or very dark environments, but anything they can do a LAM with a powerful illuminator can also do and illuminate past 500 yards with ease. Not sure if you are aware, but most LAMs have a high and low output for both laser and illuminator.

[tacticalcity]

Fine, you talked me into it. I emailed my supplier and asked to change my order to the D2. I assume it will be fine since they take several weeks to arrive.

[Munny$hot]

Fine, you talked me into it. I emailed my supplier and asked to change my order to the D2. I assume it will be fine since they take several weeks to arrive.

You won't regret it, now lets talk about binos LOL......

[tacticalcity]

A little too pricey for me for now. I'm running a PVS-14. I did go Gen 3. The tube is autogated, filmed, and made by Pinnacle. I've been told all of that is good. Better than Photonis apparently. Not sure who actually made it but this was an OPMOD model from Optics Planet. Cost me a hair over $3K after taxes and shipping. This stuff ain't cheap. Most the binos I've seen are above $4K for Gen2+ and above $7K for Gen3. A little too rich for something I get to use once or twice a year at a course. None of my suppliers have the actual NODs. I have to pay retail for those.

https://www.opticsplanet.com/opmod-limited-edition-gen-3-pvs-14-night-vision-monocular.html?_iv_code=99-NV-OPMOD-G3PVS14-OPMODPVS14G&utm_source=event-driven&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=opticsplanet_deal_alerts_jan_11_2021_13_00&pdata=377748762f326653384e722f7144797678

Paid retail for my helmets as well. But only because my supplier was out of my size, and his options were a little too pricey. I started with a Team Wendy bump helmet. Which I still have. Recently picked up a Hard Headed Veterans ballistic helmet as well. Light as the HHV is for a ballistic helmet, those suckers aren't light. Makes you appreciate the bump helmet's weight so much more. Feels like a feather by comparison.

After experiencing the really nice adjustable cam style harness of the Team Wendy helmet I thought I would miss not having it on the HHV helmet. But their new system adjusted really easily. And I do like their magnetic strap.

https://www.teamwendy.com/products/helmets-accessories/helmets/exfil-ltp

https://www.hardheadveterans.com/products/ballistic-helmet?variant=15705607307327

As for the mount. I have yet to upgrade that. I've got a Rino Mount with your typical J-ARM. But I did get a pretty nifty retention device to keep it from falling off. Forget the brand. It's basically a bungee cord attached to a patch of velcro that slaps onto the velcro on your helmet. Saw it in a video by Garand Thumb. Seemed like a good solution to an obvious problem.

I've kept the helmet setups pretty simple. Tomahawk counterweight pouches with extra batteries and counterweights. A funny moral patch on the back. IR patches on the sides so instructors can spot me plain as day. Adapters for ear pro. That's it. No need to make them heavier. An IR/White light would be nice. But the ear pro adapters take up most the space on the side rails, and that's added weight. I could always add a remora to get more rail space. But it's bulky. It's pretty easy to get carried away with putting accessories on there. Just like with the rifle itself or a plate carrier.

[Munny$hot]

IIRC Pinnacle is a thin filmed technology developed for the military Omnibus VI contracts. ITT became Harris/ITT, then sold the NV portion to Elbit, so ITT could merge and fourm L3/Harris. There are only 3 major tube manufacturers L3/Harris, Elbit and Photonis. Thin filmed tubes are made by ITT, L3, and now Elbit which are now at the Omni VIII spec tubes. L3 has been developing filmless technology and have had some pretty high spec tubes come out lately, but keep in mind it has some diminishing return vs cost. So all gen3 tubes are not created equally. Your PVS14 came with a spec sheet, if you can tell me what the SNR, EBI, LP/nm is I can give you an idea how good your tube is. For 3K you can get a decent Omni VIII tube or for 5200 a set of XLH BNVD goggles that articulate individual pods that will turn off when flipped up and turn on when flipped down

I think your counter weight is a called a mohawk and an FYI they're not IR compliant which means it'll actually glow under IR. If you want the most stability in a bump or ballistic melon bucket buy 4D Tactical pad retro kit off of ebay for @ 65.00 the stability it adds doubles what you have now. If you want a packable solution buy a Crye Precision night cap and battery pouch directly from them @ 85.00.

The best for the money swing arm is the Norotos Rhino II, which is extremely solid lockup and adds vertical adjustment. They can be found on ebay for 45-75 The standard GI Jarm works great, can be used on either eye, can be found new for 20.00 on ebay and acts as a fuse which will break if you faceplant into a door frame, etc.

The PVS14 has the most utility, long battery life, common AA batteries that can be found all over the world and in every front yard path way lighting with it's own portable solar charger. The biggest downside is its very difficult to drive with without throwing up.

For helmet mounted white/IR I've run a Inforce WML, SureFire V1, Streamlight sidewinder II. If you want to rail mount it buy a Thyrm Variarc and run your ear pro all the way to the rear. The Sidewinder I used their helmet mount or simply use the head band and hang it around your neck. I like the Sidewinders ability to use either a single AA or CR123A.

Hopefully this year Richmond Rod and gun will bring back their low light night shoot with optional night vision division since it's difficult to find someone that will let you shoot on their property at night.

[NorCalRefuge]

Update:

Changed my order to a DBAL-D2. Not just because of the comment below, but also because I was pretty torn to begin with. So we'll see. Gonna be a bit before it gets here.

Original Post:

Gonna take about a month to get it. My supplier special orders them. But saved me some serious money by waiting. Everywhere else would have cost me about $500 more.

Had an Steiner DBAL-i2 PEQ for a while that I never got around to using, and just sold. Two actually. Sold them both to fund this. Only downside to the DBAL-I2 PEQ 9007 was that it lacked the slaved visible laser that the A3 has. So zeroing could only be done under night vision. This one lets you zero during daylight with the visible laser and since it is slaved to the IR laser doing so also zeroes the IR. That lets you double check your zero whenever you like. Night vision or not. Sounds like a minor thing, but it is EXTREMELY convenient.

Would have LOVED to have gotten a B.E. Meyer MAWL. But those cost a hair under $2900 before tax and shipping. This DBAL-A3 cost me WAY under that...and was still a bit of a stretch.

The downside to just about all civilian legal laser is not the laser but the illuminator. If it is generated by a laser diode then it's bound to be pretty weak when compared to the military version. This is to protect people's eyes. The Steiner DBAL-D2 gets around this by using a LED IR illuminator. But it is bigger, bulkier and heavier. It also has a bit of a visual signature down range and can, if people downrange are extremely observant, give away your position. Not as much of a problem close in when you are running and gunning, but could present a big problem at long range. The B.E. Meyer MAWL uses a different technology to get a super bright illuminator, as bright or brighter than the DBAL-D2 without a visual signature. It is as good or better than other brand's class 3 (military only) solutions while still being eye safe and civilian legal. But it is just too pricey for me right now.

In any case, can't wait to get it and take another course. I'm overdue.

Really jealous! That's quite a piece of kit there!

[tacticalcity]

Really jealous! That's quite a piece of kit there!

Believe it or not this price range is still on the entry level side of things. Check out the B.E. Meyers MAWL. Garand Thumb does a cool video on it. But for what I use it for, I just couldn't justify the expense. But boy was I tempted.

[tacticalcity]

IIRC Pinnacle is a thin filmed technology developed for the military Omnibus VI contracts. ITT became Harris/ITT, then sold the NV portion to Elbit, so ITT could merge and fourm L3/Harris. There are only 3 major tube manufacturers L3/Harris, Elbit and Photonis. Thin filmed tubes are made by ITT, L3, and now Elbit which are now at the Omni VIII spec tubes. L3 has been developing filmless technology and have had some pretty high spec tubes come out lately, but keep in mind it has some diminishing return vs cost. So all gen3 tubes are not created equally. Your PVS14 came with a spec sheet, if you can tell me what the SNR, EBI, LP/nm is I can give you an idea how good your tube is. For 3K you can get a decent Omni VIII tube or for 5200 a set of XLH BNVD goggles that articulate individual pods that will turn off when flipped up and turn on when flipped down

I think your counter weight is a called a mohawk and an FYI they're not IR compliant which means it'll actually glow under IR. If you want the most stability in a bump or ballistic melon bucket buy 4D Tactical pad retro kit off of ebay for @ 65.00 the stability it adds doubles what you have now. If you want a packable solution buy a Crye Precision night cap and battery pouch directly from them @ 85.00.

The best for the money swing arm is the Norotos Rhino II, which is extremely solid lockup and adds vertical adjustment. They can be found on ebay for 45-75 The standard GI Jarm works great, can be used on either eye, can be found new for 20.00 on ebay and acts as a fuse which will break if you faceplant into a door frame, etc.

The PVS14 has the most utility, long battery life, common AA batteries that can be found all over the world and in every front yard path way lighting with it's own portable solar charger. The biggest downside is its very difficult to drive with without throwing up.

For helmet mounted white/IR I've run a Inforce WML, SureFire V1, Streamlight sidewinder II. If you want to rail mount it buy a Thyrm Variarc and run your ear pro all the way to the rear. The Sidewinder I used their helmet mount or simply use the head band and hang it around your neck. I like the Sidewinders ability to use either a single AA or CR123A.

Hopefully this year Richmond Rod and gun will bring back their low light night shoot with optional night vision division since it's difficult to find someone that will let you shoot on their property at night.

Correct, Mohawk. My bad. Had tomohawk on the brain. Just got some marketing material from Cross Breed today. They make sexy ones. Company is out of Australia. No need for it. But then again do I really need night vision? It could depend on light conditions maybe, but I looked at my rig under NODs, only thing glowing are the IR patches. I'm probably missing something.

Do they make battery packs for PVS-14s? I know they do for various binos. How would I know what I was buying would work with the PVS-14 I own?


Here is the spec sheet on my PVS-14...or at least it is what I was able to find online. Doesn't look to have the info you mentioned above?

OPMODPVS14G

The OPMOD Limited Edition GEN 3 PVS-14 Pinnacle Night Vision Monocular,Green Phosphor,Charcoal,
OPMODPVS14G
Objective Lens Diameter: 26,
Magnification: 1,
Color: Charcoal,
Night Vision Generation: 3P,
Length: 4.5,
Field of View, Angle: 40,
Focus Range: 25,
Battery Type: AA,
Weight: 11.3,
Diopter Adjustment Range: -6 - 2,
Eye Relief: 25,
Operating Temperature: -51 - 50,
Image Intensifier Tube: Pinnacle,
Image Intensifier Color: Green Phosphor,
Width: 2,
Storage Temperature: -51 - 85,
Water Resistant Mark: 20,
Battery Quantity: 1,
Height: 2.25,
Magnification Type: Fixed. i
OPMOD Limited Edition GEN 3 Pinnacle PVS-14 Night Vision Monocular.
OPMOD OPMODPVS14G: Limited Edition GEN 3 PVS-14 Pinnacle Night Vision Monocular,Green Phosphor,Charcoal

[tacticalcity]

Since I am running ear pro adapters from Unity on my HHV helmet I thought about something like this. But I have to decide if it is worth doing or not. I already have some WL/IR lights from Inforce I could move from a rifle to a helmet.

https://www.unitytactical.com/product/remora-mark-mount/

The ones on my Team Wendy helmet might work with the one they make for Peltor adapters. But it is a lot more clunky.

[tacticalcity]

Weight becomes an issue with helmets. Especially the ballistic one. If I can get away with not having it. I'm gonna skip it. But I agree that on a moonless night. An IR light is helpful. Your hands are going to be full. And you don't want to use your weapon light for non-shooting purposes if you can avoid it. It is a pickle.

[Munny$hot]

If you look at a black backpack under nods with IR you'll see it looks white, look at your mohawk and you'll see what I mean. As for specs on your tube, on their web site it says it has a data sheet included which gives you how it performed against the minimum specs like this:

https://images.app.goo.gl/pvrtsPRrrs5vbvyFA

The thing that keeps people from going with the Unity headset adapters is they don't lock on the rail and move around vs the 3M ARC adapters

[tacticalcity]

If you look at a black backpack under nods with IR you'll see it looks white, look at your mohawk and you'll see what I mean. As for specs on your tube, on their web site it says it has a data sheet included which gives you how it performed against the minimum specs like this:

https://images.app.goo.gl/pvrtsPRrrs5vbvyFA

The thing that keeps people from going with the Unity headset adapters is they don't lock on the rail and move around vs the 3M ARC adapters

They lock on my rail and turn just like the 3M ARC Adapters. My rail is not ARC it is MLok. What they don't do is pull out and lock in the second position away from your head. So if you're sweaty and want them off your head so you can listen to comms but not having them against your skin you're SOL. They are either on your ears, or turned back and on the back of your helmet. No middle ground.

My HHV helmet has MLok rails. And these literally are the only thing out there that will work on it. I tried 3 different things that claimed they'd fit M-Lok. None fit but the Unity ones. They all had something about them that made them not fit. A quirk in their design that conflicted with the design of the helmet.

As for the spec-sheet, it's probably in the bag with the device. It came with a booklet user manual. I am sure it is in there somewhere. The writing is on the small side. When I have some time I'll dig it out and try and figure out the right page.

[Munny$hot]

As far as specs a low EBI of under 1.0 is good .5 is real good. If your FOM is 1800 is good in the mid to high twenties is great. To find FOM multiply your SNR X LP/nm = FOM

[Endless]

The D2 is ok and is the best bang for your buck and if you’re on a strict budget. I sold a used one for like $700 a couple years ago.

Now I have an upgraded MAWL and am trying to get the MAWL CLAD which is almost unobtainable. I can get the MAWL DA pretty easy. But again all of these are over $3000 and are restricted for civilians. I also swapped to the 2A option as I hate cr123 batteries.

The Harris L3 NGAL is another one I almost bought. Both are superior to all the Dbals. My opinion of course.

Look at Wilcox also.

And keep in mind the Dbal D2 is last generation in tech. Only a few are using the most state of the art tech. Steiner dbal i2, D2, a3 and a4 all use last gen technology. Some folks get their panties in a bunch about this so just a reminder.