Scope thoughts

[pennys dad]

I am wondering about scopes made to be caliber specific.
Here is an example:
Primary Arms 1-8X Scope with ACSS (SPECIFIC For) 5.56 / 5.45 / .308 Reticle

or

Primary Arms 1-6X24mm SFP Riflescope Gen III No Specific Caliber

Is there a benefit from the caliber specific or not?
Note: I don't use BDC's

[kcheung2]

Simple question: is the scope going on a gun that shoots 5.56 or .308? Because if you're going to be putting it on something that shoots 6.5x55 Swedish or 8mm Mauser then those marks won't mean anything & you're better off with their KISS reticle.

More nuanced question: Do you reload? Because those BDC marks are not just for specific calibers, they're for specific loads at specific velocities. If you reload 5.56 but like to use 77 grain projectiles at higher (or lower) velocities then those marks also won't match. They'll be pretty close but you'll always have to hold over.

Having said that, I've found their ACSS reticles to be pretty reliable out to 400 yards, even with my reloads. Yes I have to hold over, but that's only if I'm shooting paper, when hitting steel plates it will work fine.

[Tommy Gun]

Also realize the ACSS is only accurate to what power you zero. I'm sure you will zero in at highest power so as you dial back to 1x the BDC doesn't track. But if it's on an AR it would be fine for close quarters just don't expect the 400 yd hash mark to be usable at 1,2,3,4x

[Tommy Gun]

oops, for a second focal plane scope. It's why you pay a premium for first focal plane scope.

[TMB 1]

^This^ and the marks can mean different things at different power settings.

[pennys dad]

Simple question: is the scope going on a gun that shoots 5.56 or .308? Because if you're going to be putting it on something that shoots 6.5x55 Swedish or 8mm Mauser then those marks won't mean anything & you're better off with their KISS reticle.

More nuanced question: Do you reload? Because those BDC marks are not just for specific calibers, they're for specific loads at specific velocities. If you reload 5.56 but like to use 77 grain projectiles at higher (or lower) velocities then those marks also won't match. They'll be pretty close but you'll always have to hold over.

Having said that, I've found their ACSS reticles to be pretty reliable out to 400 yards, even with my reloads. Yes I have to hold over, but that's only if I'm shooting paper, when hitting steel plates it will work fine.

If if purchased a 5.56 specific scope it would be for a 5.56 rifle, yes.
Let me add detail, to my question: I have a 7.62x39 I want to add a scope, the ACSS reticle is very interesting but it is caliber and load specific, I am accustom to non specific scopes.
I will not reload, I will use factory ammo.

I like non specific scopes because I can move it from rifle to rifle if needed, accounting for a re-zero of course.

My dilemma is I do have 5.56 ACOGs and a few other caliber and load specific scopes but that split is 80/20 with 80% being non-specific.

[pennys dad]

Thank you everyone for the replies.

[pennys dad]

So to repeat back. A 5.56 BDC scope may be useful for a 308, i just need to figure it out. Not a bad idea, to know your scope you must figure it out, so not to crazy.

[kcheung2]

PA has a 1-6 scope specifically calibrated for 7.62x39. If it's going on something besides an AK, I recommend it. I've found the BDC to be dead on for Wolf, Tula, and Golden Tiger. If it's going on an AK, don't bother, the gun just isn't accurate enough & all the scope does is allow you to see all the bullet holes going near (but not on) the target.

As for the the 5.56/308 version, it uses the same reticle for both calibers. No need to do any extra figuring out. That's possible because it turns out that both cartridges have roughly similar ballistics. Also if you read the instruction manual, you are supposed to dial up or down an inch or so depending on your specific load & that will get the BDC marks to align much closer. So for example, the BDC marks match up perfectly with m855 & a 20" barrel at 1000ft above sea level, but if you're using m80 ammo, adjust the dial up 1" so when perfectly centered the impacts are a bit higher, and that will compensate so the 200/300/400 marks line up better.

[hermosabeach]

AK is easier as there is pretty much one load....

AR-
Your FPS can be anywhere from 2400 FPS with 77 grain bullets from a 14 1/2" barrel to 3,500 with 45/55 grain. slow burning power and a 24" barrel


I am not sure that 1 reticle will fit all... I would prefer a BDC Hash mark or mil dot....

[kcheung2]

Actually there isn't one load for x39...GT shoots faster than Tula, and I can guarantee you that some random Made In Egypt load will shoot different than either of them. But the x39 ACSS is close enough. Not precision shooting close, but close enough.

Agreed, Mk 262 will shoot differently than M193, but like the x39 example, they are close enough. Perhaps the 300 mark is closer to a 330 yd mark for example, but realistically... 1) can most people estimate range that precisely? 2) if a 30 yard bullet drop difference that far out is critical, this is not the scope to use. The scope is intended for torso hits at unknown distances quickly. Not for punching tiny holes in paper.

All BDC scopes have limitations & the ACSS is no exception. In some cases mildot (and their variations) are better choices, and in other circumstances a simple duplex reticle/German #4 is a better choice. ACSS & the simpler KISS is just another option. And having many choices is good.

[pennys dad]

Great information everyone. I am now comfortable with the idea of the x39 ACSS PA scope.
Now, one last nugget. The scope isn't going on an AK like a yugo or krink or e. german build or something along those lines, but it is going on a VEPR.
Any thoughts on the vepr and a scope.
I am looking for 4 moa accuracy. i follow the model of 4 moa is good enough for most things short of precision rifle, smallbore and such.

[Horrendo Revolver]

Caliber specific scopes are nothing but marketing hype. Even at that they are wrong and should be called cartridge specific scopes.

Since each rifle barrel is different there is a large variance in the velocity of the exact same ammunition shot through different rifles. That and that alone renders caliber specific scopes useless for their intended purpose.

[Tommy Gun]

It's all about intended purposes. I have a PA ACSS 1x6 on an AR. Now I got it because I wanted something to use for longer distances. And even then I'd only trust it to 300 maybe 400. Your run of the mill AR shouldn't be used for distance like that anyways. If you want true accuracy get a real scope. Turrets on the 1x scopes are terrible anyways. It's why I should have bought my Eotech with the bdc for but oh well.

[DrewTheBrave]

Just because your cartridge doesn't match their recommended BDC chart doesn't mean it's useless.

If you look below, I used the data I have on Strelok to estimate the approximate BDC of the ACSS on my my 16" AR with my current 50/200yd zero. You can compare it to the SWFA 1-4x with the diamond reticle and MIL hash marks as well.
Edit: this is with 55gr. Other projectiles will have different trajectory.

Whether or not you prefer one or the other comes down to personal preference and intended use. I personally think the utility of MIL or MOA hashmarks is more useful than BDC reticles, but I don't do any competition shooting either.

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