Surefire Flashlight Discussion

[jkchan83]

I have been having a private discussion with sb_pete about alternatives to a Surefire for an AR-15 weapon-mounted light. With his permission, I will post our discussion so far and I would like to have others add their opinions. sb_pete is a flashlight enthusiast and I have learned a lot from him in another post, so here goes.

First PM

Pete,

You said that flashlights are your other hobby. I was hoping that you could help me combine that with firearms. I recently purchased a flashlight/mount combo for my AR-15 and posted about it here.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=157823 Post #16

While the Surefire that came with the set is really good, it is also pretty expensive. I was hoping that you might have a recommendation for a similar size light that is less costly. As I said, I prefer CR123 batteries and I would like a light with a rear momentary/constant-on switch.

If you want to start a thread on this so that others can benefit from your insight, that would be cool with me.

Thanks,

Jason

[jkchan83]

sb_pete's First Response

Hey Jason,
Not sure I follow. A few counter questions:

1. Do you already have the Surefire light that comes in the combo?

2. Which model surefire is that? The G2led in BobFried's orignal pic?

3. Are you looking for an alternative to the surefire?

4. Or are you looking for a less expensive way to run the surefire light?

5. Are you open to using rechargeable batteries?

6. Why do you prefer cr123's? Is it because of their size? Their output? or something else?

Happy to help. Might be signing off soon so if I don't get back to you tonight, I will tomorrow.
-Pete

[jkchan83]

Latest PM from me to sb_pete:

1. Do you already have the Surefire light that comes in the combo?

2. Which model surefire is that? The G2led in BobFried's orignal pic?

I ordered 1 complete combo kit that came with the new VTAC L4. It is basically a rebranded Surefire E2D flashlight with a momentary/constant-on switch. It's the one in pictures 5 & 6 mounted to the gun

3. Are you looking for an alternative to the surefire?

4. Or are you looking for a less expensive way to run the surefire light?

I would like a less expensive alternative to the Surefire. I have a couple other Surefire flashlights that I use for emergency lights around the house. But, at around $120 for the L4 light, it is a little too expensive to get another 2 or 3 for my other weapons.

Viking Tactics also sells a Surefire G2 LED combo for $84 ($20 for mount, $64 for flashlight). However, I have never used a Surefire Nitrolon flashlight and don't know how well it would hold up as a firearm light.

5. Are you open to using rechargeable batteries?

Yes, but part of the reason I prefer CR123's is because they have such a long shelf life (10 years). I like being able to rely on the batteries in the flashlight even if I leave them there for a while. Are current rechargeables capable of similar shelf life?

6. Why do you prefer cr123's? Is it because of their size? Their output? or something else?

Shelf life

Would you mind if I started a post in the Optics forum with our discussion to date?

Thanks,

Jason

[sb_pete]

Okay, I think I have a better idea of where you're going with this all now. The E2D is a nice light, but is essentially a 6P with more style and features. It is still a basic 2CR123 light underneath the nicer finish (HAIII vs typeII anodizing), nifty styling and whichever bells/whistles that particular model has (strike bezel, cigar grip, protected switch, two stage switch, forward clicky switch with lock out, pocket clip, etc), and whichever head that one came with (xenon, led, led with TIR, etc.) The bottom line is that alot of those features are really made to make it a nice handheld light and don't do anything but look cool when mounted on a weapon (strike bezel for example).

I would like a less expensive alternative to the Surefire. I have a couple other Surefire flashlights that I use for emergency lights around the house. But, at around $120 for the L4 light, it is a little too expensive to get another 2 or 3 for my other weapons.

Viking Tactics also sells a Surefire G2 LED combo for $84 ($20 for mount, $64 for flashlight). However, I have never used a Surefire Nitrolon flashlight and don't know how well it would hold up as a firearm light.

Well, how much less are you looking to spend and what features do you need? You can get surefire 6P clones for very cheap ($15-$30 on Kaidomain or Dealextreme - both in Hong Kong with free shipping) and then get a high output LED drop-in for as little as $15 (you could also spend a boatload on the cadillac of drop-ins, the Malkoff Devices). a 6P is a simple light and most of the clones are no better or worse than the legit (~$50 for xenon version at Lowes) originals. That is to say, the ones with the traditional momentary push, twist for constant-on switch with lockout. Alot of them have reverse clicky switches which are really cheap and prone to break.

The problem with these kinds of lights is going to be the switching mechanism. For a weaponlight, I would recommend a forward clicky switch. Quick break for terminology:
-"Forward Clicky": The type that have a "tactical momentary-on" with a half push, constant on with full push). Think Mag-Lite switch. This is as opposed to the
-"Reverse clicky": A reverse clicky you push down, it clicks, you release, then the light turns on. Think most Fenix lights, and many cheapo lights.
-"Twisty" switches turn on when you tighten or loosen the bezel or tail (depending on manufacturer). Think those little mag-lite AAA keychain lights.
-"Momentary" or Twisty with Momentary on" switches are the traditional Surefire switches which turn on when twisted tight, or turn on under finger pressure when the tail is only lightly untwisted. Think SF 6P, etc.

A forward clicky switch allows momentary illumination which reverse clickies or twisties do not. They also allow you to get constant on without removing your hand from the FPG which "momentary" switches do not. There are three main problems with forward clickies though
1. They tend to turn on in your pocket. This is not a problem with a weaponlight.
2. Once on, they cannot break the current flow to signal mode changes to an led driver board like reverse clickies can (this is why most fenix led lights and such have all those low, high, strobe, etc modes). It is possible to do this with a forward clicky switch (think SF E1B), but it requires a much more complex and thus fragile switch.
3. Forward clicky switches are inherently complex and fragile designs. Cheap ones tend to break very quickly. If you have ever taken apart a mag-lite switch, you will know what I mean - they are super chintzy inside. Same goes for most cheap china import forward clicky lights. If you take apart a Pelican M6 or M3 switch though, you will see how such things should be done - that switch is built like a tank.


Bottom line, a forward clicky switch is best suited to weaponlight use, but if you want multiple modes to go with it, you can't buy a cheapy if you want reliability.

_____________________

Another problem with weapon lights is recoil. Most lights only have a spring at the back. the light is facing forward. Recoil can make the batteries compress back and break contact. At best, the light flashes or dims quickly. At worst, you have a multi-mode light which cycles to the next mode - dim, strobe, SOS, whatever. That could be bad.

Surefire and Pelican lights generally are sprung from both sides of the battery tube to prevent this from being a problem. Jetbeam is a Chinese manufacturer who does this as well, but their lights are generally reverse clicky and not up to par with SF and Pelican.

All that said, this is less of an issue with AR's firing .223 than it is shotguns and .308 class weapons.

________________

A quick note about output: Candlepower vs lumens vs candelas are a bit like torque vs horsepower. Some people prefer to talk one or the other, but you need both to really know anything.
-Candlepower is a measure of the intensity of light at a specific point (the brightest point - usually the center of the beam), but this tells you nothing about the beam pattern or overall output. A laser is very high candlepower, but it ain't gonna help you get to the bathroom at night.

-Lumens: lumens are an SI measurement of total light output. comparing lumens and candlepower is a bit like comparing inches and liters. They are different measurements in different measurement systems, so that is part of why they make no sense next to each other. A 100 watt bulb in your desk lamp is very high lumens, but it ain't gonna light up anything across the street.

- Candela: candela is an SI measurement that was supposed to have replaced candlepower. flashlight manufacturers didn't get the memo though. The only reason I mention it is to let you know that there is a unit to represent intensity that complements and is compatible with lumens. Its just that no one uses it.

So if you knew both candlepower (or candelas) and lumens, then you would know how bright the light is and whether it's beam pattern was more like a light saber, a car headlight, or a desk lamp.


Out The Front (OTF) VS total VS theoretical Lumens: Complicating it all further is the fact that different manufacturers measure different things when it comes to lumens.
- Surefire measures OTF lumens and markets this as a wonderful thing because it is the lumens you actually see. This is true, unless you change something...

- Total lumens are what are measured by people like Fenix, etc. This is emitter output. there are inherent losses in output as the light passes through reflectors, optics, lenses, etc. Or as the plastic lens (more properly termed a window, but whatever) corrodes over time, Or when there are fingerprints on it. Or when you change from a smooth throw profile reflector (maglite) to a orange-pealed or stipled flood pattern reflector. As you can see, knowing total lumens is helpful because you know the total lumens of the emitter or bulb and then you know about what kind of losses (usually about 30-40%) your projection system has (reflector or optic plus lens/window). This makes interchangeability easier to assess.

-Theoretical lumens: this is common with custom flashlight stuff. When you run X amount of current through led diode Y, you get _____ amount of lumens plus or minus however much percent. This is helpful if you have multiple battery, driver options.

________________

What's the deal with Reflectors and optics:

Well to grossly oversimply:
Optics (like the SF TIR system) are types of lenses which channel light. Aspherical or fraen are the most common in flashlights. TIR lenses are basically aspherical, but more complicated than that. They work very well. Fraen lenses are like bike reflectors or the lens on many headlamps. They focus the light to exit at a specific angle (22 degrees for example). This makes a consistent beam. These are most effective in flood applications. Aspherical lenses don't really work well in incan applications because they project an image of the emitter out the front. In the case of an incandescent bulb, this is a coil of wire. It looks ugly and is not effective. LEDs are flat square emitters though, aspherical lenses work very well for them

Reflectors come in many versions for flashlights but most commonly you get smooth ones for added throw of the beam, or orange-peeled or stippled surface ones for more flood. There are also companies like Olight that make hybrids of the two.

[sb_pete]

None of that really answered your specific question but it laid the groundwork some. The SF G2 is a great light. The main advantage of the nitrolon is twofold - 1. it is lightweight, 2. it does not become freezing to touch like alum does - if you have ever picked up an aluminum flashlight in sub-freezing temp with an ungloved hand you will know what I mean.

Regarding the specific flashlight to use you need to think about a few questions:
1. Flood or throw? If this is for home defense, you want a light that throws a wall of light to illuminate as much of whatever small space you are in. If the light were to be for mounting on an M2, you would want a long range laserbeam-like spotlight like the SF Hellfighter which is an HID light. OTOH, if you were using your carbine on actual deployment, you would want a blend of the two - you would need both to clear rooms and to look into 3rd story windows accross the street or what not. SF TIR optic LED lights or large head reflectored incan lights work well for this. Same goes for if you live on a ranch or out someplace where the address includes the words "rural road #__"

2. Battery life: The more battery life you want, the more you have to sacrifice in terms of either output or weight. Be realistic about this. If this is for a home defense weapon, then 30-40 minutes of runtime should be at least 5-10 times more runtime than you will probably ever need. You can afford to go with a lightweight, super bright floodlight (400 lumens+).
If you are on deployment to the sandbox and will have to clear rooms on patrol all night, you need more runtime. You will either have to put up with a heavier light out there, make do with less output, or add a small 1 cell secondary back-up light to the rail

3. Type of use: If you are a patrolman going out every night and using the light every night, and paying for your own batteries, rechargeables make sense because they will be topped up at the beginning of every shift.
If it is for an HD use and the gun will be sitting until needed, you want long life primaries. You also want a simple on/off type light so there is not parasitic drain from a circuit board. This type of drain can be counteracted by using a lockout type feature (which is actually just a fancy name for anodizing most of the tailcap threads so that the circuit can be broken), but do you want to have to deal with remembering to screw back in the tailcap when something goes bump in the night?

4. Size? This goes hand in hand with output and batterylife, but there's a lot to be said for very small 1 cell lights with new led tech. These lights put ~100 plus lumens out the front and are more than adequate for short range tactical uses (eg, they will temporarily blind an assailant with night adapted eyes and illuminate typical residential size rooms). OTOH, they will not light up the inside of a room across the street through the window. They also will not get "past the fence" out on the farm.


____________________________

5. Are you open to using rechargeable batteries?

Yes, but part of the reason I prefer CR123's is because they have such a long shelf life (10 years). I like being able to rely on the batteries in the flashlight even if I leave them there for a while. Are current rechargeables capable of similar shelf life?

6. Why do you prefer cr123's? Is it because of their size? Their output? or something else?

Shelf life

Bottom line, No.

Rechargeables are not capable of primary shelf life. There is a new type of NiMh chemistry/casing technology being employed by a few manufacturers which has much less parasitic loss than previous designs. Sanyo's Eneloop brand (the nifty looking white batteries in the blue box) is the most prominent. These will last months instead of weeks and are much less temperature sensitive than traditional NiMh or Li-Ion designs, but still are nothing on the order of the 10 year shelf life of lithium primary chemistries like cr123 or Energizer E2.

As discussed above though, there are advantages. If you cannot afford to toss your slightly used primaries on principle at the end of every duty day or patrol, but have the access to mains or generator power necessary to recharge batteries, rechargeables can be great. They are cheaper to run and topped up rechargeables are always better than primaries that are you don't know where in their discharge cycle.

Another advantage is the increased voltage when we are talking incandescent bulbs and CR123 size stuff. a 6V flashlight holding 2 CR123 size batteries can run a more powerful bulb when using a pair of 4.2V Li-Ion rechargeables. The most notable examples of this are
1. running a 6P size flashlight with the Lumens Factory EO9 or HO9 bulbs which put out light that approaches Surefire M6 territory. These bulbs can also be run in 9V 3 battery lights like the 9P, but they have less run time and lower output than when used with high quality rechargeables. The reduced runtime part should not make sense, but it has been my experience.
2. Running a Surefire M6 with a WA1185 bulb using this conversion battery holder and these bulb holders. This makes for a 1300 lumen Surfire M6. It's bright.
The problem with these is you have to use top notch rechargeables. AW brand is the best and the only ones guaranteed to work. Cheaper batteries will take two or more tries because the initial current draw on a cold bulb filament is greater than their safety cutoff switch. They will work, but not well. Top notch batteries solve this (the AW brand are sold by lumens factory as well as many others).

When using leds OTOH, rechargeables don't carry the same increased output benefits. Further, use of typical li-ion rechargeables in Surefire lights and some others will blow the led diode because they cannot handle the additional voltage. In those cases you can use batteries like these 3.2V nominal Li-Ions, They work great in Surefires. But they do not have long shelf life (they do self discharge over the course of a couple months). They also have less capacity, but again fully charged rechargeables are better than you don't know how much charged primaries.
Another option which is actually the same 3v nominal as lithium primaries is LiFe PO4 chemistry batteries like thsese. These have even less capacity, but the cell chemistry is much more stable and not prone to explosive venting like this or this or Ouch, this(those were primaries, not rechargeables btw). It isn't common, but it happens. I don't bother with LiFePO4, because it doesn't have enough capacity for me, but it's something to be aware of.

[sb_pete]

OK, so what light should you actually buy????
Well, first I'm going to repost some stuff, I put in this thread, but then if you answer the four questions in post 5, I can maybe give you some more specific recommendations.

A nice alternative to Surefire are the Pelican lights. I really like the Pelican M6 series. They are comparable to the Surefire 6P series but are much nicer and also less expensive IMHO. They also have a really nice, and really tough and overbuilt forward click type switch.

Check out these lights:
- Fenix Lights are great, especially the Fenix TK10 as a tac light.

- Nightcore flashlights are also great tac lights, esp the Extreme R2 edition (Cr123) and the NDI (AA size battery). Both of those are small 1 cell lights that put out a ton of light and have forward clicky switches. They would not add much weight to the fore end of the gun. You could also go with something like their Raidfire Spear which is more Surefire Scout size.

- Olight also makes great lights. They are similar to Fenix. The M20 is a nice tac light.

Other offerings to look at are Lumapower, Tiablo lights, Deree light.

If you are interested in going the incandescent route (shorter battery life, but better color rendition), check out the Lumens Factory EO-9 bulb with 2 rechargeable CR123 batteries in something like a Surefire 6P or Pelican M6. This makes for a REALLY REALLY bright light. The batteries only last about 40 minutes, but you are using rechargebles with this setup so it doesn't really matter. There is no low setting with something like this so it's not a good choice to find your way to the bathroom at night, but if you want a tac light that will blind the living heck out of any intruder, this is a great choice. It's like channeling sunlight through the tube. There is none of that washed out black and white effect you get with most LED lights, it is bright as heck and in living color.
**EDIT** - I should note, that using this setup requires top notch rechargeables like the "AW" brand sold by Lumens Factory and on CPF marketplace. Your average Ultrafire, Trustfire, etc batteries might work, or not. Often these lower quality cells have a trip point set too low on the protection circuit and will require a double or triple press of the switch to overcome the higher startup current needed by a cold bulb. Not what you want in a dangerous situation - so if you go this route, use high quality cells (AW are the best I know of) so you can be sure that they will always work the first time.

Here are some great retailers for flashlight stuff. These guys provide top notch customer service and really really know what they are talking about when it comes to lighting. They are not your average peddlers of "tac gear" that happen to sell flashlights as well. 4sevens with Fenixstore and 4Sevens Flashlights and gear, Matt at Battery Junction, Flavio at Bugout Gear, and Mike with Pacific Tactical Solutions. Also be sure to surf through Candlepowerforums and CPFmarketplace, if you want to a good info source on portable lighting tech.



ok, lots of info there now. hope that helps. If you go into some detail about your needs vis a vis the four questions on post 5, I can maybe give you some more specific recommendations.

It sounds like you want a 2 cell CR123 light that you can run on primaries and use for HD that will sit around for a while. And you want to do it for a lot less than the $140 or so VTAC is charging for the light part of their $165 combo package. I would buy something that uses primaries so buy the mount and then check out
-Pelican M6 and M6LED
-Surefire 6P, 6P led

(Or clones of the 6P running one of the many drop-in led kits, the Malkoff being the best and most expensive.)

-For more output, check out a Surefire 9P or quality clone with a forward clicky switch and run the Lumens Factory EO9 or HO9 bulb on 3xCR123 primaries.

Anything cheaper is going to start sacrificing reliability. Anything cooler is going to cost more. If you are open to different battery layouts though, there are other options (1xCR123, 1xAA style). I know, it is almost disappointing to here such basic choices as Surefire 6p, 9P, or Pelican M6 at the end of all that, but those lights are, imho, the best combo of cheap and reliable out there in the 2 X cr123 format.

Bottom line is all I can really do is give you more information to base your decision off of. I am not you and don't have your specific needs. Whatever those needs are though, the current market in handheld lighting is so diverse and varied, there is bound to be something that fits your needs and budget.

Hope that helps,
-Pete

[sb_pete]

reserved

[aplinker]

That VTAC light is a hot ticket, but at a price. It's meant to save weight and function the same as the $500 scout light. It's also LED.

I've used a G2LED for a while with excellent success, as well.

I would NOT use rechargeable batteries on a weapon light.

[Eric_Oh]

wow... thats alot of info. Thanks.

[maxicon]

Another thought on light output for your purpose - if you're planning on using a light indoors for home defense, you might want to avoid high output lights. Hitting a close light colored wall or door with a 250 lumen light at 3am will wipe out your night vision in an instant, and it can take a few minutes to recover.

For outdoor use or large buildings (warehouse security or whatever), high output is much more useful. In this situation, you're less dependent on night vision in the first place (assuming you're operating out of a car, control room, or similar).

I generally try to stay below 100 lumens for indoor use. Outdoor, it depends on the specifics.

One useful option for this is a dual-output tactical light like the above-mentioned Fenix TK10/TK11 or similar. It's got high and low output that isn't changed by the switch, but by twisting the bezel, so you'll never accidentally change modes when you don't want. This gives you the option of 60 lumen output for indoor use and 200+ lumen output when required.

[jkchan83]

1. Flood or throw? If this is for home defense, you want a light that throws a wall of light to illuminate as much of whatever small space you are in. If the light were to be for mounting on an M2, you would want a long range laserbeam-like spotlight like the SF Hellfighter which is an HID light. OTOH, if you were using your carbine on actual deployment, you would want a blend of the two - you would need both to clear rooms and to look into 3rd story windows accross the street or what not. SF TIR optic LED lights or large head reflectored incan lights work well for this. Same goes for if you live on a ranch or out someplace where the address includes the words "rural road #__"

I am looking for 2 different lights in 2 different applications: 1 will be mounted to the forearm of a HD shotgun. From what I can tell, this would call for a floodlight. As you said, I would like to be able to light up an entire wall or room. The 2nd light will be mounted on a general-purpose, SHTF, bug-out, bug-in AR-15. From above, this gun would need a combination of flood and throw.

2. Battery life: The more battery life you want, the more you have to sacrifice in terms of either output or weight. Be realistic about this. If this is for a home defense weapon, then 30-40 minutes of runtime should be at least 5-10 times more runtime than you will probably ever need. You can afford to go with a lightweight, super bright floodlight (400 lumens+).
If you are on deployment to the sandbox and will have to clear rooms on patrol all night, you need more runtime. You will either have to put up with a heavier light out there, make do with less output, or add a small 1 cell secondary back-up light to the rail

For the HD light, I agree that 30-40 minutes is plenty of time. For the general-purpose light, I would like to have a longer run-time, say a target of 10 hours on one set of batteries (for the longest night). Does this sound reasonable? Since I want 10 hours of battery life, I assume that I am looking at LED flashlights. Correct?

3. Type of use: If you are a patrolman going out every night and using the light every night, and paying for your own batteries, rechargeables make sense because they will be topped up at the beginning of every shift.
If it is for an HD use and the gun will be sitting until needed, you want long life primaries. You also want a simple on/off type light so there is not parasitic drain from a circuit board. This type of drain can be counteracted by using a lockout type feature (which is actually just a fancy name for anodizing most of the tailcap threads so that the circuit can be broken), but do you want to have to deal with remembering to screw back in the tailcap when something goes bump in the night?

The HD light just needs to work. I completely agree with your earlier post that a "forward clicky" light is the best for both of these lights. I am going to avoid rechargeables because I don't fit into the profile of use that you laid out. I need shelf life and reliability for when I don't have access to central mains for recharging.

4. Size? This goes hand in hand with output and batterylife, but there's a lot to be said for very small 1 cell lights with new led tech. These lights put ~100 plus lumens out the front and are more than adequate for short range tactical uses (eg, they will temporarily blind an assailant with night adapted eyes and illuminate typical residential size rooms). OTOH, they will not light up the inside of a room across the street through the window. They also will not get "past the fence" out on the farm.

This is a great place to differentiate between the HD and general purpose lights. For the HD light, the smaller LED, 100+ lumen light sounds like a winner. However, will there be any issues with a smaller light mounted on a shotgun? I worry about barrel shadow and handling the heavy recoil from a 12 ga.
For the AR, I like the length of the L4/E2D/6P (since they are all about the same size). It allows me to mount the light forward of my vertical grip and just in range of my thumb while still minimizing the barrel shadow.

I have looked at some of the lights that you posted. After reading the marketing spiel, I still have some questions:
-Pelican M6LED: The 2390 looks very nice for HD light. Does it come with a forward-clicky switch? The 2330 meets my run-time for the GP light, but there is no information about the pattern.
-Fenix TK-10: I like the idea of 2-mode operation, but is it really useful? I would leave it on "turbo mode" for the HD light. I also like the 200 meter throw, but what mode would this be in? Lastly, does this come with a forward-clicky switch? The description says "Tactical tailcap switch with momentary-on function." Does this mean Twisty with momentary like on almost every Surefire?

I want to thank you again for all of the time that you are putting into this. I think that I am down to 4 choices for the 2 flashlights: Surefire 6PLED, Pelican M6LED, Fenix TK-10, and Olight M20. Given my above needs, what would you recommend?

[jkchan83]

That VTAC light is a hot ticket, but at a price. It's meant to save weight and function the same as the $500 scout light. It's also LED.

I've used a G2LED for a while with excellent success, as well.

I would NOT use rechargeable batteries on a weapon light.

Does your G2LED have the forward-clicky switch or does it have the twisty switch?

[jkchan83]

Another thought on light output for your purpose - if you're planning on using a light indoors for home defense, you might want to avoid high output lights. Hitting a close light colored wall or door with a 250 lumen light at 3am will wipe out your night vision in an instant, and it can take a few minutes to recover.

For outdoor use or large buildings (warehouse security or whatever), high output is much more useful. In this situation, you're less dependent on night vision in the first place (assuming you're operating out of a car, control room, or similar).

I generally try to stay below 100 lumens for indoor use. Outdoor, it depends on the specifics.

One useful option for this is a dual-output tactical light like the above-mentioned Fenix TK10/TK11 or similar. It's got high and low output that isn't changed by the switch, but by twisting the bezel, so you'll never accidentally change modes when you don't want. This gives you the option of 60 lumen output for indoor use and 200+ lumen output when required.

So, what you are describing is that I should be looking for a 100 lumen flood light for a HD shotgun, correct? I like the Fenix TK10, too. Have you tried/looked at the Olight M20? It has a really low setting, but a usable 90 lumen medium setting that seems to meet what you describe:

Low: 7 lm (150hrs), Med: 90 lm (12hrs), Hi 250 lm (~3hrs)

Thanks for the input.

[sb_pete]

That VTAC light is a hot ticket, but at a price. It's meant to save weight and function the same as the $500 scout light. It's also LED.
I've used a G2LED for a while with excellent success, as well

The VTAC light is a good little package. In terms of Surefire money, it's a great price. There are many reasons Surefire cost more than just about any other non-boutique custom lights, but suffice to say that they make GREAT lights.

The VTAC light is more or less a SF E2D LED Defender. It has an E2D body hooked to a Z59 tail cap and a KX2C 120L LED head. From the looks of it the VTAC light does not have dual output like the E2DL (someone please correct me if this is wrong). The Z59 tailcap switch is just a very well put together forward clicky switch. The switch being the number one part that fails on flashlights, this is a very good thing. That said, the Pelican switches are equally if not more beefy and cost much less. They are also made in California just like Surefire. They don't look as cool though.

I would NOT use rechargeable batteries on a weapon light.

People should be aware that what Plinker is saying here is absolutely the gospel from 99% of the tactical crowd. I just happen to disagree with it in some circumstances. It is kind of a moot point here since rechargeable use does not fit the needs of JKChan.

That said. Use of rechargeables in tactical lights is shrouded in obsolete BS, confusion, wives tales, discombobulation, and outright lies. You should know the characteristics and limitations of any batteries you are using. Ignoring anything to do with Lead-acid, ni-cad, NiMh, Li-Poly, blah blah, etc. We are specifically talking about 3V cr123 lithium primaries and Li-Ion rechargeables here.

Both types are susceptible explosive venting of the battery which, in a tightly sealed flashlight, can turn into a hand grenade. That said, top quality rechargeables with protection switches reduce this possibility to pretty much unheard of. It is much more common with primaries.

The main reason people advocate primaries over rechargeables is two-fold.
1. Rechargeables will blow up or burn out your bulb/led

With some lights, this is true, you have to know whether your light is rated for the increased voltage. Some incandescent bulbs like the lumens factory bulbs are. SF bulbs are not. SF leds are not rated for rechargeable voltage either, but many other led lights and p60/d26 drop-in led kits are as well

2. Rechargeables self discharge and don't last as long asprimaries

Rechargeable li-ion batteries do self discharge. They will go dead somewhere between 3 months and a year. I use lots of them and occasionally find one I forgot about a few months ago in a little used battery carrier. They are usually dead. That said, many people use primary cells and just keep them in there until they are dead. A half used or close to dead primary is never as good as a freshly charged rechargeable. If you or your employer can afford to issue fresh primaries every time you are going to go out on patrol or every time you are going to use the light, then great, primaries ARE better. they have between 150%-200% the capacity of most rechargeables (meaning rechargeables have between 50-75% the capacity of quality name brand primaries). If you are like most people though, you probably have half dead batteries in your light. If using rechargeables, there is no inclination to "get the most out of" your $1-$5 a pop batteries. You keep one set in the light, one set on the charger and primaries as backups. Every day or duty day you have freshly topped off batteries and you know exactly how much run time you will have. Primaries might have more overall capacity, but if you don't know how much you've got left, that's a lot worse than knowing you've got X amount, which happens to be less than the amount you would have with the unused primary cells you DON'T have

[sb_pete]

Another thought on light output for your purpose - if you're planning on using a light indoors for home defense, you might want to avoid high output lights. Hitting a close light colored wall or door with a 250 lumen light at 3am will wipe out your night vision in an instant, and it can take a few minutes to recover.
For outdoor use or large buildings (warehouse security or whatever), high output is much more useful. In this situation, you're less dependent on night vision in the first place (assuming you're operating out of a car, control room, or similar).
I generally try to stay below 100 lumens for indoor use. Outdoor, it depends on the specifics.

This is a valid concern. Hitting a white wall with a 100L + light right in front of your face with night adapted eyes is a recipe for seeing stars.

That said, the problem with this is that a white wall is more or less a mirror in terms of white light reflected. If your light is not bright enough to blind you when you do that, it might not be bright enough to blind an assailant either. Trying to find the balance where shining on a wall doesn't blind you, but shining at someone will blind them is a bit of a sisyphean task. Bottom line, don't stare at the hotspot on a white wall and don't light up walls you can reach out and touch.
That said, really powerful lights (700 lumen +) ARE a bit ridiculous indoors. and tend to blind you even when you are not doing something stupid (like trying to read something printed on white computer paper with a 100L light and night adapted eyes). IMHO, the fact that a 90L light wont blind you when you hit a white wall in a bedroom is offset by the fact that you aren't sufficiently lighting up a living room. *shrug*

One useful option for this is a dual-output tactical light like the above-mentioned Fenix TK10/TK11 or similar. It's got high and low output that isn't changed by the switch, but by twisting the bezel, so you'll never accidentally change modes when you don't want. This gives you the option of 60 lumen output for indoor use and 200+ lumen output when required.

These are great and +1 to that. One thing to say though, is that the "twist X part to get Y light output" lights require maintenance. Unlike the cheapo reverse clicky half press=change mode lights, these lights are not entirely software based. As such, threads should be kept clean and lubricated. and contact areas should be periodically cleaned with contact cleaner or the old rubbing alcohol and pencil eraser trick. Most firearms owners are familiar with preventative maintenance, so this shouldn't be an issue, but most people wouldn't actually think to oil their flashlight, so it should be mentioned. LIGHTS LIKE THIS DO REQUIRE MAINTENANCE.