ACOG vs. Short Dot

[Mr310]

I am looking into stepping up my optics game and have been looking at ACOGs. While they are nice, I am wondering if the Schmidt and Bender short dot is worth the extra money. It seems nice to have the option to go from 1.1x to 4x at the turn of a dial. Does anyone have experience with both?

[ExtremeX]

I own an ACOG (TA31F), but I've used both... Its an easy choice for me, the short dot is the clear winner IMO. Its that much more versatile as a CQB and target optic.

ACOG fills a very specific niche... plus you are tied into very specific loads with a BDC reticle.

The bindon aiming concept is something I have practiced a lot and its isn't ideal, compared to a short dot or a RDS it has a huge learning curve and is difficult to master... using any magnified optic up close is going to be harder than something with 1x or open tube.

BAC is easier to do on other models because the eye relief is so short on the 4x model. Personally I have to extend my LOP to get comfortable which just makes it really inconvenient. Without extending the LOP the optic actually get in the way of being able to see using the other eye.

ACOG also has no diopter adjustment so depending on your vision, the picture may or may not look perfect to you.

In addition to that, you get a variable scope, and I love low power variables. Dual Focal plane scopes generally have a etched reticle in the first focal plane, and a RDS in the second. Its a really unique design that addressed the illumination issues of pretty much all "regular" 1-4x optics.

[Mr310]

I own an ACOG (TA31F), but I've used both... Its an easy choice for me, the short dot is the clear winner IMO. Its that much more versatile as a CQB and target optic.

ACOG fills a very specific niche... plus you are tied into very specific loads with a BDC reticle.

The bindon aiming concept is something I have practiced a lot and its isn't ideal, compared to a short dot or a RDS it has a huge learning curve and is difficult to master... using any magnified optic up close is going to be harder than something with 1x or open tube.

BAC is easier to do on other models because the eye relief is so short on the 4x model. Personally I have to extend my LOP to get comfortable which just makes it really inconvenient. Without extending the LOP the optic actually get in the way of being able to see using the other eye.

ACOG also has no diopter adjustment so depending on your vision, the picture may or may not look perfect to you.

In addition to that, you get a variable scope, and I love low power variables. Dual Focal plane scopes generally have a etched reticle in the first focal plane, and a RDS in the second. Its a really unique design that addressed the illumination issues of pretty much all "regular" 1-4x optics.

Thank you for the detailed response! Interesting about the ACOG and the diopter adjustment. I do wear glasses and actually hadn't thought about that. Do you remember how the eye relief on the short dot was?

[ExtremeX]

Thank you for the detailed response! Interesting about the ACOG and the diopter adjustment. I do wear glasses and actually hadn't thought about that. Do you remember how the eye relief on the short dot was?

If you wear glasses and your prescription is good, then its not really a big deal... its more an issue for those who don't wear corrective lenses but don't have perfect vision either.

The eye relief was about the same as any other good quality 1-4, 1-6, 1-8x I have used... about 3" to 4" which is also about what you can expect from pretty much everyone.

US Optics also has a 1-8x DFP (dual focal plane) basically the same deal as the short dot... I think Swarovski might have something similar too.

[Mr310]

If you wear glasses and your prescription is good, then its not really a big deal... its more an issue for those who don't wear corrective lenses but don't have perfect vision either.

The eye relief was about the same as any other good quality 1-4, 1-6, 1-8x I have used... about 3" to 4" which is also about what you can expect from pretty much everyone.

US Optics also has a 1-8x DFP (dual focal plane) basically the same deal as the short dot... I think Swarovski might have something similar too.

Not the TA31f! That's one of the big downsides to that optic for me and part of the reason why I was leaning towards a TA11. I'm liking the short dot the more I read about it. And I hadn't put two and two together. I haven't had issues shooting with an ACOG with my glasses on.

[ExtremeX]

I was referring to everyone who makes a decent 1-4. 1-6. 1-8x variable scope..

The ACOG was my first really serious optics purchase... and shooters wiser than me at the time highly recommended the 3.5x model over the 4x model. I wish I listened at the time but the 4x was generally the more "popular" option and I didn't really know what to expect. That said, the 4x has a really beautiful FOV, its a very pleasing optic to look though.

The 3.5x model really does alleviate a lot of the gripes I had about the 4x model, the eye relief is longer, its does a better job as a target scope than the 4x even though its not optimal for that either. If I had to do it over, I would have went with the TA11J, the crosshair version was a lot nicer than most people give it credit for.

That scope does a great job at what it was designed to do, but it isn't optimal for the type of shooting I do most. Its a combat optic designed to range man sized targets in open spaces, and for the distance small target shooter, it was little to no use.

On top of that, I just don't like BDC reticles... I also like to dial my correction as I find it to be a lot easier and more consistent than holding from shot to shot. Also why I prefer uncapped turrets but with removable caps so I can run it tamperproof if needed.

I just cant ignore how versatile these low power variable scopes are... personally I am a convert and I love 1-4, 1-6, 1-8x type scopes. They come in so many different options so its easy to find something which works for you. The DFP/Short Dot scopes take all that to a totally different level as you now have a "RDS + Magnifier" style combo that doesn't suck.

Aside for them generally weighting a bit more than most people like, and cost, they don't compromise on much.

[teflondog]

I considered the Short Dot but I didn't like its relatively short battery life. I got an ACOG instead with the RMR on top of it for CQB shots.

[ExtremeX]

I haven't spent a lot of time with the RMR on top, but I feel like I had to change my cheek weld a bit to really make that transition.

[Mute]

I like ACOGs but unless the rifle it's going on will be used in a very specific manner, the Short Dot will be much more versatile and it's a killer optic. On the ACOG/RMR pairing, I actually prefer to take the RMR off the top and mount it separately on an offset mount.

[static2126]

ACOG is amazing. I have always run Aimpoints and I just got my first ACOG. Sent 1000 rounds through it yesterday and it's a winner.

I will say:

I don't like the TA31 (4x magnification) because the eye relief is too short.

I love the TA11 (3.5 magnification) awesome eye relief, nice FOV

I love the TA33 even better eye relief

Their new TA44 (1.5 magnification) is pretty cool too. Just not sure what 1.5 magnification does that a T1 or Aimpoint Pro does not.

If they make a ACOG TA11, TA33, or TA44 with a Primary Arms ACSS....well shut up and take my money...

[HK Dave]

I love my ACOG... it is however very purpose made.

I know some folks dislike the eye relief, but the eye relief allows the scope to have a ridiculously large field of view. I imagine it was designed to be that way on purpose.

It is not however a precision optic.

I have not had the privilege of playing with the short dot, but I have owned other 1-4 and 1-6 higher end optics and while I love then, they serve a different purpose.

They generally have a smaller field of view than the ACOG and I consider them sort of a compromise. The 1-6 and 1-8 scopes fisheye at 1x magnification and the red dots have very low battery life... they also don't float like a red dot sight so your cheek weld has to be pretty good.

Personally, I run an ACOG with a red dot mounted at 1 o'clock on the rifle.

Then again, I also run 1-6 scopes so...

Get them all!

[SuperSet]

Short Dots must be unicorns cuz I never see them except in fairy tales.

[HK Dave]

At $3K for a short range scope, I imagine the market for them is pretty specific.

If I won the lotto though.

[static2126]

I agree with HKDave that ACOGS are purpose built optics. But having the ability to ID things at distance and the ACOG ruggedness, I think it's great for what it's intended role is.

Best idea? Have a bunch of similarly setup rifles but with different purpose driven optics

[1CavScout]

I am running a TA11J on my SCAR 17, and it's been a great optic. I would also look at the Elcan OS4x for a fixed optic. I am running one on an HK, and it has very clear glass and it is priced about the same as an ACOG.