US Optics vs Nightforce

[xsefan]

Vortex are garbage.
Chinese or not. If vortex wants to sell scopes here they need to step up the customer service and quality control.
I would rather have a bushnell.
Comparing vortec to Schmitt and Bender is like comparing vinillia shake and gargling mayo.

[HK Dave]

Take a look at a comparison I did a while back.

S&B PMII 5-25x56mm DT LT vs Nightforce ATACR F1 5-25x56mm vs Vortex Razor HD Gen II 4.5-27x56mm vs Kahles Gen2 k624i 6-24x56mm

Or the updated one I did on the Hide.

http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/forums/5511-rifle-scopes/14588749-a-review-of-6-alpha-scopes-s-b-nf-vortex-kahles-steiner

I'm guessing you haven't played with the Gen II models. They have become the most popular scope on the PRS circuit for good reason.

I own Schmidts and I don't feel like i lose anything when running the Gen 2 Razor. I'd even go as far as say the reason Schmidts resale value has dropped so dramatically is because of the Razor Gen II and Nightforce ATACR F1.

[Cody]

Vortex are garbage.
Chinese or not. If vortex wants to sell scopes here they need to step up the customer service and quality control.
I would rather have a bushnell.
Comparing vortec to Schmitt and Bender is like comparing vinillia shake and gargling mayo.

That's your opinion. Vortex makes quality scopes and has the best warranty in the business. That's not just my opinion. Vortex was the 3rd most commonly used scope among the best long range shooters in the country, and this is even before the Vortex Gen II came out.

Skip to 3:14

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GorhRqb1xMs

[Kestryll]

Because millennials expect things that are unreasonable. It is well know that millennials want something for nothing.

When one asks someone if they are a millennial, you are asking how old they are to ascertain whether you are dealing with someone very young from a particular generation that does not yet understand that companies are in business to turn a profit, and that we should not feel so entitled as to put them out of business because of ridiculous desires.

Kestryll, Christopher777 took that broken scope and sold in on YOUR FORUM. Shouldn't you be having words with him as opposed to us?

So in other words it is not pertinent you just wanted to get a shot in about your assumption about his age.

Got it.

If someone contacts me about buying a broken scope it will be addressed, since it seems the only evidence of selling a broken scope was your assumption there's not a lot to do there.

However since even backhanded digs ARE against the rules there is something to address here so..

[bug_eyedmonster]

Why should the customer service change on a scope depending on price? Vortex is supposed to be solid through in through no matter which scope you get from them and if they aren't that just drives my suspicions home about the real quality of the company.

I'm in the same boat with this thought. customer service is customer service. The problem with Vortex is that they make mainly lower end products, with a very light sprinkle of higher end items. They need to figure out when to provide "good service" for higher priced items and weed out the $5 optic issues. I wouldn't want to deal with that step if I spent $x,xxx on a product that became defective for whatever reason.

I have had experiences with Nightforce, S&B, USO, and Kahles. All very good scopes, but regardless, almost all of them have some degree of tunneling at lower magnification. I have only dealt with customer service from two of the brands mentioned above, and they were both very quick and rather painless. But that's part of what you are paying for. With Vortex, I would imagine you get decent glass at a bargain, but the indirect affect is poorer customer care.


Jerry

[Christopher777]

I'm in the same boat with this thought. customer service is customer service. The problem with Vortex is that they make mainly lower end products, with a very light sprinkle of higher end items. They need to figure out when to provide "good service" for higher priced items and weed out the $5 optic issues. I wouldn't want to deal with that step if I spent $x,xxx on a product that became defective for whatever reason.

I have had experiences with Nightforce, S&B, USO, and Kahles. All very good scopes, but regardless, almost all of them have some degree of tunneling at lower magnification. I have only dealt with customer service from two of the brands mentioned above, and they were both very quick and rather painless. But that's part of what you are paying for. With Vortex, I would imagine you get decent glass at a bargain, but the indirect affect is poorer customer care.


Jerry

That's how I feel about it. I mean it's only my opinion based on what I have experienced. Don't get me wrong, the turn around was quick and the women I spoke to in the phone was extremely polite but I felt that the repair work could have been less sloppy. I'm sure the razor had gen 2 line is a great line. I do see all the YouTube videos of top notch shooters using them but for my hard earned money I would feel more comfortable spending it on another brand. What can you tell me about Kahles clarity of the glass compared to the others you mentioned?

[bug_eyedmonster]

That's how I feel about it. I mean it's only my opinion based on what I have experienced. Don't get me wrong, the turn around was quick and the women I spoke to in the phone was extremely polite but I felt that the repair work could have been less sloppy. I'm sure the razor had gen 2 line is a great line. I do see all the YouTube videos of top notch shooters using them but for my hard earned money I would feel more comfortable spending it on another brand. What can you tell me about Kahles clarity of the glass compared to the others you mentioned?

Same, it's only my opinion as well, and I might be 100% wrong.

The clarity is hard to compare. I didn't have all of them at the same time, so I'd say HK Dave's write up would be a better testament as a comparison. I liked the Kahles, but for me, the color was a bit off. Be forewarned, I'm color deficient/blind, so this is by no means going to be true for you. My eyes seem to prefer optics with warmer tones, and when I tried the Kahles, it was more colder than what I prefer. The image was very sharp, but just not my cup of tea.


Jerry

[Christopher777]

Same, it's only my opinion as well, and I might be 100% wrong.

The clarity is hard to compare. I didn't have all of them at the same time, so I'd say HK Dave's write up would be a better testament as a comparison. I liked the Kahles, but for me, the color was a bit off. Be forewarned, I'm color deficient/blind, so this is by no means going to be true for you. My eyes seem to prefer optics with warmer tones, and when I tried the Kahles, it was more colder than what I prefer. The image was very sharp, but just not my cup of tea.


Jerry

Yeah,... All research I've been doing on these top of the line scopes seems like at some point it's splitting hairs in comparison. I just need to narrow down what I need and go with that. I just want top quality.

[ExtremeX]

That's how I feel about it. I mean it's only my opinion based on what I have experienced. Don't get me wrong, the turn around was quick and the women I spoke to in the phone was extremely polite but I felt that the repair work could have been less sloppy. I'm sure the razor had gen 2 line is a great line. I do see all the YouTube videos of top notch shooters using them but for my hard earned money I would feel more comfortable spending it on another brand. What can you tell me about Kahles clarity of the glass compared to the others you mentioned?

I venture to guess you haven't dealt with the CS of other optics companies?

Based on what you said above, you seem pretty unreasonable. On top of that, its a capped turret low end hunting optic... most if not all on the market in that price class have a little turret slop. Set it, forget it, cap the turret.

Yet they still went out of their way to accommodate you?

I honestly feel Vortex needs to drop their bottom end scopes from their catalog, or just start offering a different warranty for their Chinese bases optics and keep the VIP warranty for their Philippines and Japanese based scopes.

If NF or US Optics made $100 scopes too, you would see the exact same thing from them.

[Killer Bee]

I opted for IOR on my Barrett when Rob Vogel from Impact recommended it over the Swarovski's frequently returned recoil damaged and the awesome price $1150 [2005]..

my IOR [pictured in action below] has held up extremely well over 12 years of moderate use.. they feature Schott glass, decent coatings and very durable.. I would not hesitate to buy another one..

now if I wanted anything higher quality, US Optics will get my money.. I went to the factory in Brea with my buddy to pick up the scope and have it mounted on his duty weapon..

co-owner Arnold gave us a tour, treated us with courtesy, mounted my buddy's scope [even threw in an EGA cap gratis], answered all of our questions, and left a lasting impression on me regarding their business.. besides US Optics has a long history of proven quality and I do like to patronize local business when practical..

I don't have a strong opinion about nightforce however I have heard a lot of good things about them..

it really boils down to making the choice between specs, features, quality, warranty, and price point.. start making your eliminations until you're left with something that meets the most of your criteria..

and if all else fails, buy one that's pretty or has a cool name - JK

good luck!

[Christopher777]

I opted for IOR on my Barrett when Rob Vogel from Impact recommended it over the Swarovski's frequently returned recoil damaged and the awesome price $1150 [2005]..

my IOR [pictured in action below] has held up extremely well over 12 years of moderate use.. they feature Schott glass, decent coatings and very durable.. I would not hesitate to buy another one..

now if I wanted anything higher quality, US Optics will get my money.. I went to the factory in Brea with my buddy to pick up the scope and have it mounted on his duty weapon..

co-owner Arnold gave us a tour, treated us with courtesy, mounted my buddy's scope [even threw in an EGA cap gratis], answered all of our questions, and left a lasting impression on me regarding their business.. besides US Optics has a long history of proven quality and I do like to patronize local business when practical..

I don't have a strong opinion about nightforce however I have heard a lot of good things about them..

it really boils down to making the choice between specs, features, quality, warranty, and price point.. start making your eliminations until you're left with something that meets the most of your criteria..

and if all else fails, buy one that's pretty or has a cool name - JK

good luck!

Solid advise! Thank you! I was pretty dead set on USO then I started looking at NF and Kahles. The Schmidt and Bender I would want to but is a hair over what I'm actually wanting to spend I suppose.. I do like that fact that USO is all American made but yeah, it's basically gunna come down to specs.

[Mute]

At this end of the spectrum is rather pointless to fret over clarity or optical quality because, unless you're doing a scientific test on the performance it's purely subjective. I've used and owned most of these scopes and I've not had any trouble clearly seeing and identifying my targets with any of these scopes. When environmental conditions become challenging is when you start to notice the difference between high end optics vs other scopes.

[Rusty_Shackleferd]

I'm monitoring this thread. I'm trying to decide between S&B and USO. My two priorities are shot repeatability after elevation and windage adjustments and ruggedness of the optic itself. I haven't decided which caliber I'll mate this scope with, but I've narrowed it down to .300WM, or .338LM. Use will be big North American hunting within 500 meters, but occasional long range target practice out to 1200m.

[Sheik_Yerbutay]

my USO LR 3.5-17 scope is a better scope than the nut behind the trigger could ever hope to use to its full potential.

I have the same scope and the scout sniper I shoot with on occasion said it was comparable to his S&B. I support US made products wherever I can and USO is a first rate company with lots of customization options.

[JMP]

Solid advise! Thank you! I was pretty dead set on USO then I started looking at NF and Kahles. The Schmidt and Bender I would want to but is a hair over what I'm actually wanting to spend I suppose.. I do like that fact that USO is all American made but yeah, it's basically gunna come down to specs.

Actually, it's sort of a myth that Schmidt & Bender scopes are in a different price league. What they have done is just like the German autos. There are tons of options and you pay for each option. The base model, 5-25x56 PMII can be bought for $3,400 new. That's with the P4F reticle (or a couple others), which I actually prefer to many of the options you have to pay for. That's the same scope as some with the MSRP over $4k, just without the ugly orange cerakote, Horus reticles, etc.

If you like the Schmidts, I really don't think $3,400 is asking too much for what you get in the 5-25x56.

The truth of the matter is that there is no "best glass". For "best glass" I'd have a different answer for each range/environment.