Amsec safe rust problem?

[sargenv]

I've had mine for 9 years and though I need a bigger one, I too have not had any issues with rust. I live in the Bay area about a mile from the bay but overall it's not all that humid here.. even when it's foggy.

Vince

[socalsteve]

I went to Deans Safes this week (thursday 12-28-06) and spoke with John the mgr of the safe dept. - he said some AMSEC safes had a problem rusting out from the inside.

AMSEC uses the drylight (cement) mix as a fireproofing in between 2 sheets of steel and he said it retains moisture and rusted from the inside?

Before I went I spoke with someone on the phone (from Deans Safes) who told me the AMSEC cement can crumble just by hitting it with your fist - so if a thief cuts the 10 gauge outer layer of steel they could theoretically pound the cement out easily with a hammer and then cut the inside steel.

They didn't want to sell the AMSEC but I did get a quote for one.

They were really pushing the Fort Knox safes - must get a big commision on them.

I don't know if I like the Fort Knox fireproofing basically its 2 sheets of drywall (firerated & bonded to the metal) but is that REALLY good enough in a house fire? I read somewhere that some companies pass the fire test by heating the safe slowly and then cooling it down when the hour is up.

Anyway, I'm still trying to decide bwtween the Sturdy safe, AMSEC & Fort Knox .... so far Sturdy is leading.

[Satex]

Sounds like you are trying to make an informed decision. If that is the case, how is Sturdy in the lead? They talk the talk, and walk the walk but they provide NO DATA to back anything?

Anyway, I'm still trying to decide bwtween the Sturdy safe, AMSEC & Fort Knox .... so far Sturdy is leading.

[somekevinguy]

Yeah this safe stuff is driving me crazy. It is like buying a new bed matress. I don't know what the hell to buy. I want a big one like refrigerator size. I think the most I want to pay is like $3000 and I would like to spend less than that if possible. I just don't want someone to be able to open it in 5 minutes with an axe or a crowbar.

[Scarecrow Repair]

I want a big one like refrigerator size. I think the most I want to pay is like $3000 and I would like to spend less than that if possible. I just don't want someone to be able to open it in 5 minutes with an axe or a crowbar.

I bought a Hall's safe a few months ago.

http://www.hallsafe.com/

It is built from 1/4" steel plate and it is airtight once closed; it has NO holes for electrical cords etc, so they claim it is good for 1 hour in an 1800F fire while keeping the contents below 140F The reason I like this is that every other safe I saw was claimed to be good to 350F only, which is good enough for paper, but solder flows at 360F. I want to store computer disks in the safe, not just guns.

It does mean no dehumidifer inside, but since no humid air can get in, you can put dessicant (?) bags inside, and I have seen some of them which you "recycle" in an oven on pilot light. As for a light inside, I have never needed one, and if I did, a flashlight would be good enough.

Total price for a 5 x 2 x 3 safe, including tax and installation, was around $3000. But they are near Sacramento, and I don't know how that would affect installation costs for you.

The weight is, I think, 850 pounds empty, but remember, a thief is not stealing the safe, he is stealing the contents.

[socalsteve]

I have Sturdy in the lead because of the metal thickness 7 gauge (for the one I want) and a 5/16ths door. It has the ceramic wool and glass blanket + an inner steel liner.

They show a safe in a burnt down house and from a friends opinion who went and visited their business I am judging them to be very good. My friend died and it took 2 locksmiths 6 hours to get(drill) his safe open (his wife misplaced the combination).

If you phone or email for a brochure and price list they send more info than their website lists. The website really needs someone who knows what he is doing to check it out and make corrections/consistent.

I know the sides and top of any safe (rsc) is the weakest and I figure you can peel or cut the outer layer on the side and then pound out the drywall(fireboard) or drymix(cement) or ceramic blanket but Sturdy has a 3/16th side + an inner linner and ripping out two blankets may be harder than cutting or pounding drywall/cement so I figure it might take longer than the 10 gauge fort knox or AMSEC. Plus, I am building a closet around the safe I buy so the sides and top will have walls around them. If anyone here has tried cutting thru a stucco w/chicken wire wall you know how long that can add to the time.

I also think the cermic and glass blanket will be better in a fire - just my best guess from reading about 10,000 links on safes.

I also like how the sturdy safe door clamps shut making them more airtight. And, I like how he protects his combo box with the hardplate - he has a slide in peice that some companies don't use.

To be honest, it is hard to choose between Fort Knox, AMSEC & Sturdy - they all have differences and you can add options to make the sides and doors stronger. The AMSEC I like is the BF 7240 - this is a BF rated RSC (BF is burglary & Fire, rsc is residential security container). The Sturdy is not rated as far as I can determine. But that doesn't mean is isn't just as good.

The AMSEC BF 7240 is pretty similar in cubic feet to surdys 72x48x24 the ANSEC is deeper and has a 1/2inch steel door.

The Fort Knox is about a $1000 more than the AMSEC and Sturdy models I am comparing - approx. $4000 + tax & ship for a Fort Knox and $2800 to $3000 for the other two - that includes Cal. tax and delivery. Of course the Fort Knox is prettier - fancy paint job and stuff that I won't see inside the closet, lots of bolts and gears in the door but are they necessary?

I am still trying to decide between the AMSEC and Sturdy - I like AMSEC's 1/2 inch steel door vs Sturdy's 5/16th - i think (if I remember correctly) that AMSEC has a thicker inner liner than Sturdy. I think Sturdy's fireproofing is better (just my best guess no proof) than a cement mix and Sturdy has thicker sides but I will add walls around the sides?

I figure I will have this forever (heck I may get buried in it-lol- its about the same price as a casket) and I don't want to buy another so I want to make sure I get a very good one.

I did see an AMSEC TL30 rated gun safe at Deans for $4200 but it weighs a ton and you loose a lot of interior space plus they are deeper on the outside which doesn't fit my space size requirement (too deep).

Theres my 10 cents for what its worth.

[mike100]

sturdy safe isn't for everybody. customers like me are not impressed by ratings..at least not in these types of products. There is a lot of sales BS in safes. It is kind of like boat sales. They aren't well known outside of a region due to shipping costs and environmental differences in different climates, not to mention bad mouthing the competition.

I want to see a safe in an actual fire, not a UL furnace test. sturdy claims to have put some in condemned bldg training fires that a friend in the FD there used to have access to. This is how sturdy claims to have arrived at the insulating method he feels comfortable selling in his fire safes. There may be a lie in that, but then there is the actual house fire safe shown as well. You get a lot of steel for the money, despite the fact that the fit and finish isn't as polished as a premium make...but like I said, I wanted a strong box for the garage, not a lingering credit card debt on a $4000 safe.