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[efreak]

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[Fjold]

Does CA Penal Code Section 24310-24390 apply?

24310. Except as provided in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any camouflaging firearm container is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170.

24390. Except as provided in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, any camouflaging firearm container is a nuisance and is subject to Section 18010.

[efreak]

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[L84CABO]

Shipping: I would much rather shipping be charged separately but that the shipping rate was an accurate, reasonable and competitive amount. I can tell when a company is making money off of shipping. I don't begrudge anyone a profit. If you want to make more off of a sale, then charge more off of a sale. But I view it as dishonest when it's buried in the shipping expense. YMMV. Right or wrong, that's how I feel.

Interior: I generally prefer a generic interior so that the case can be used for multiple weapons. If foam is customizable, then I prefer closed cell for less moisture retention. Either way though, replacement foam sets should be available.

US vs China - It's nice to see "Made In The USA." That said, my first concern is usually for quality. Give me a well made product that will hold up and last. Quality things can be built in China but the odds generally aren't in your favor. But if I'm paying the prices that you're asking, it had better be a very high quality case.

I don't really care how many options you offer, I only care if one of those options is something I like or need. If that makes sense. The sheer number you offer is irrelevant to me.

General Comments:

As far as a covert type case goes, I probably don't have much interest in covert pistol cases. Pelican cases are generally generic enough for me when it comes to pistols. And particularly given the prices you charge. I'm not saying that they're not appropriate for what you're offering. More that I just don't really have a need for a covert pistol case. But if I did, I probably wouldn't want to pay more than what a good pelican case goes for.

As a side note, I've often wondered why Pelican doesn't make an actual guitar case. Seems like there would be a good market for it given how expensive some guitars are. But maybe there's already the Pelican equivalent in the music industry and I'm just not aware of it.

There may also be something to be said that if you do build a covert case, disguising it as an amp might not be the best choice. Those things are kinda expensive and would be something a thief would probably want to steal. Then again, usually there's good stuff in a Pelican case so maybe it's not anymore or less attractive than those are. Just thinking out loud.

I do have a need for a covert rifle case. I've actually been doing some looking lately. But this is only a recent need as my situation has changed. Previously I've gone from house/garage to range and there was no need to keep things "covert." And I suspect it's this way for a lot of people.

Recently, however, I have a new living situation which involves riding ferries a fair amount and it occurs to me that a ferry would make a great soft target for someone looking to cause mayhem. So I'm looking for a compact bag that can hold a collapsed (but not broken down) AR without it being blatantly obvious of what's inside.

To this end, however, I don't need it to be what I'll call "super" covert...like your guitar type cases. I just need it to not be blatantly obvious like a tac'd out double rifle case with molle and pouches hanging off of it. A generic looking rectangular type case that could contain anything, is probably sufficient...and probably preferred as guitar cases are oddly shaped and don't store as easily. My needs would also be for a soft case. I don't need or want the weight of a hard case.

Hope that helps!

[missiondude]

I looked and looked for a soft rifle case that looked like it held a tennis racket or musical instrument. I wanted it for hauling my rifle on my back when riding the motorcycle. Finally settled on a case that looks like it holds a skateboard.

Your cases look awesome. I would rather pay actual shipping, and have the option for a generic inside or a custom for more money. I would prefer made in USA, but if the quality was there and the price difference was 30% or more I guess the China thing would fly with most.

[TripleThreat]

I'm interested in a case(s) to store some specific weapons. I don't necessarily need a guitar case, but I like the idea. What is most important to me after price is a case that can be custom ordered to fit weapons. Moreover, were the foam looks as if it were laser cut for my items, weapons, magazines, lights, scopes etc.

I have a couple of small businesses and have helped many with there upstart. If I were to give you advice, it would go something like this. You have a great opportunity with your particular upstart.:
1. Get your product out there, weather it's by getting it to those that can help you sell you cases, stores, people respected in the business etc.
2. Up your game, make sure your products are professional, find a way to get laser type cutting for those customers that want more than just a case with foam.
3. Sell at a price that gets them in the market and people talking about your product, then up the price as the markets allows.
4. Continue to follow trends and add or remove products that sell or don't sell.

Triple

[efreak]

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[efreak]

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[TripleThreat]

This is your interpretation of what I stated:

Contrary to what someone else here said do not try and enter a market cheap and then raise prices. In retail there is a phrase called 'perceived value' If you enter the market in the low end or the middle your product will never be accepted in the high end, etc. Enter the market at a sustainable price point. Trying to enter a market and then raise prices is foolish. You can always get cheaper. You can never significantly raise your price points. Your formerly cheaper clients think your product is now over-priced. And the people that would have bought it at the higher price point from the get go now think your product is worth less than what you're now charging. Pricing policy is key.

This is verbatim what I stated;

3. Sell at a price that gets them in the market and people talking about your product, then up the price as the markets allows.

Show me again where I said to sell "cheap?"

If you believe that whatever price you enter the market one is stuck with that price forever you are sadly mistaken. I don't talk about this often, but I was homeless living out of my car at 19 and fully retired at 49. That came with innovation, hard work and maybe a blessing or two.

Not sure if you recognize it, but you come across as being very pointed and somewhat tongue lashing. The way I talk to people on the boards, is the same way I talk to them in person. I "tried" to be helpful. I'm trying to find the grace and helpfulness in your post.

Triple

[Teachu2]

At the prices you are charging, your product needs to stand out as noticeably superior to going to Guitar World for a $80 case and the local fabric supply for $25 worth of foam.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Musicians-Gear/Deluxe-Dreadnought-Case.gc#productDetail

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Musicians-Gear/MGMADN-Molded-ABS-Acoustic-Guitar-Case.gc?pfm=sp

[L84CABO]

YES! Thanks for your input!

Shipping: I understand about the profit from shipping concern and it's something that bothers me as well, that's why I chose to offer shipping included. I am starting to think that Having shipping cost separate would be best, but the cases literally cost $35 to ship, so I fear some people may think I am trying to turn a profit there. I'm on the fence.

Interior: I am thinking about making a "sport" line of cases that use "standard" foam, it would lower the cost by about $40-50 on the rifle cases. Replacement foam sets are available, I still need to add them to the website.

Country: I have been exploring outsourcing manufacturing to china, It would offer several things like the ability to specify stronger hinges, handles, and adding two combination locks on the case itself. It would also lower resale price by about 20-30%.

Covert: Those small amplifiers are $60-80 on the used market. They just have a LOT of labor involved with converting them, hence the price. But I feel like a thief will ultimately get less money in his pocket and have a harder time getting rid of a little amp or a guitar than a $600++ gun. Most used guitars are in the $100-200 range, much less than a rifle.

In your case there are already many manufacturers of rectangle shaped cases for rifles, I do feel they are much less covert than something shaped like an instrument. Ultimately if the prices were the same, would you choose the guitar shape?

Shipping - I see your problem here. In this case it may be best to roll the shipping into the price of the case. It would be nice if you could offer a discount if people want to come in and pick it up. I know I always appreciate that option. But if you don't have a storefront than that may not be possible for you. Just a thought.

China - In my past life I worked as a supply chain manager for large telecom companies. I have a pretty decent background in manufacturing and particularly the art of moving production to China and then managing that supplier/production from afar. Do give some thought to this. I'm not saying outsourcing to China is a bad choice. But I can tell you that cost savings were almost never as much as was initially planned/hoped for. It takes time and resources to manage things from across the pond. And it almost always takes more time and resources than what you initially plan for...which means spending more money.

There tons of other challenges too...

Language barriers

Import and export requirements that take experience and resources to navigate as well as extra costs

Increased shipping costs

Time differences...you're basically on opposite schedules. Your day is ending just as theirs is beginning. Meetings, general communication, problem resolution almost always happens (for you) at night.

Cultural Differences...in so many different ways

Etc.

[Old4eyes]

You might need a lock on the cases that are housing long guns:

http://www.calgunlaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Effective-January-1-2013-Ban-On-Carrying-Long-Guns-In-Public.pdf

Page 6 of the analysis is what I am referring to.

The article points out the law that was enacted in Jan. 2013 that requires that long guns in public must be in a container and if that container is not expressively made for firearms it must be locked. The ambiguity here is if from an external view it doesn't LOOK like a gun case, will a LEO/DA make the case it isn't a gun case?

If the latches on the guitar case have locks then I would hope it would be good to go. The law does not specify the type of lock needed.

Also, if you are transporting a RAW, it has to be in a locked case period. And if legislature now deems all of the AR15's with bullet buttons become RAW, well the case will need to have a lock. Yes, you could add a hasp and lock to the case, but that would defeat it's hidden in plain sight feature.

[Packy14]

Hey Calguns, I am not advertising for you to buy them but I would really appreciate your opinions! I am trying to expand the business beyond "I know some guy that makes cases" ---TO---> "this is the go-to website for covert cases".

Sales are slow, but we are new to the online marketplace. I am looking for input on what "customers" want.

Please post any comments, and I am open for discussion. I look forward to hearing from you all!

I will post a poll for the question "Why haven't you bought a Covert Case"?

I have a few more general questions as well.

1. Would you rather have shipping $ included (Free shipping) or see a lower initial price and pay shipping extra?

2. Do you value a customizable interior to mold to your items or just want "regular" flat foam for a lower cost?

3. Is the "Hand made in the USA" aspect worth anything? Or would you prefer lower cost from China?

4. Would you be more comfortable ordering if we sold more products? The number of available products specifically.

Basic info on the products (currently shipping included):
Single Rifle $240
Double Rifle $300
Double Pistol Amp $250
Triple Pistol Amp $330
Ukulele Pistol $210

So you want to advertise here and get away with not being a vendor? Sorry these cases are 200$ too much, and this sales tactic reaks

[ExtremeX]

Ill stick to my tried and true pelican case...

[Quiet]

Does CA Penal Code Section 24310-24390 apply?

They do not apply, because the guitar gun cases do not meet the CA legal definition of a "camouflaging firearm container". [PC 16320]



Penal Code 16320
(a) As used in this part, "camouflaging firearm container" means a container that meets all of the following criteria:
(1) It is designed and intended to enclose a firearm.
(2) It is designed and intended to allow the firing of the enclosed firearm by external controls while the firearm is in the container.
(3) It is not readily recognizable as containing a firearm.
(b) "Camouflaging firearm container" does not include any camouflaging covering used while engaged in lawful hunting or while going to or returning from a lawful hunting expedition.