Arisaka Mum

[Banana_hands]

Would this mum be considered "intact"? Ive had this Arisaka type 44 carbine for a while and I can't tell if it's just an unfortunate ding in the metal or if it's an intentional mark. Either way, sweet rifle. If only it could talk, I'm sure it's seen some things.

Update: Much better pictures. Better representation of its condition.

Its obviously been USED, and has plenty of character.

[NoHeavyHitter]

Yes. When they ground them off, they took all of it.

[Emdawg]

Probably an attempted field defacement. Japanese soldiers would do that to preserve the emperor's honor if they knew death and capture of the rifle was certain.

[mosinnagantm9130]

Probably an attempted field defacement. Japanese soldiers would do that to preserve the emperor's honor if they knew death and capture of the rifle was certain.

This^^

It isn't "intact", but field defacements are pretty cool IMO.

[Mark49]

During the surrender the Japanese asked MacArthur for time to remove the mums from all rifles, guns and all other items that could disgrace the emperor. Many mums were simply scratched maybe with a bayonet many are major filed, some pinged with tools. Your would be "Partly intact" Not fully intact. Still a great classic.

[Banana_hands]

Awesome! It makes sense. I bought the rifle from a coworker a while back who said it was I believe his great uncles. Apparently his great uncle brought it home with him after WWII. Any ideas on a ballpark value? I'm pretty sure I got it for a killer deal. It has the dust cover but not cleaning rods. I think it's a first generation.
It's been in my safe for a while, I almost forgot I had it. I'm thinking about getting dies and loading up some rounds. Either that or pay over a dollar a round for factory ammo if I can even find it in stock.

[beerman]

Yes. When they ground them off, they took all of it.

Not true sir..I've seen many,many with the Mum just "x"ed out

[highpower]

Awesome! It makes sense. I bought the rifle from a coworker a while back who said it was I believe his great uncles. Apparently his great uncle brought it home with him after WWII. Any ideas on a ballpark value? I'm pretty sure I got it for a killer deal. It has the dust cover but not cleaning rods. I think it's a first generation.
It's been in my safe for a while, I almost forgot I had it. I'm thinking about getting dies and loading up some rounds. Either that or pay over a dollar a round for factory ammo if I can even find it in stock.

If you go to this website: http://oldmilitarymarkings.com/japanese_markings.html
You will be able to determine the manufacturer and approximately when it was made.

If the dust cover and the bolt match the rifles serial number it will add to the value. I would say it is worth in the ball park of $350 ish, more if everything has matching numbers.

[glassparman]

Not true sir..I've seen many,many with the Mum just "x"ed out

Correct. I have two that are X'ed out and not ground.

[ShadowX]

Still a nice rifle. It looks like your sights and bayonett are still intact. The stock hasn't been modified either. Would be nice to find out the story of how he got it and where he got it if he is still alive. He might have told the story to others if he has passed on. Its great to keep a record of the history to pass down to others since it has value beyond just a piece of metal and wood.

[MasterChief]

Intact but slightly defaced or cancelled.

More desirable than completely ground (all other things being equal).

[Vlad 11]

Looks to me that it is what is referred to in 'Arisaka Parlance' as a Struck Mum.

A tool or bayonet strike on the seal. Not uncommon

[mievil]

I wouldn't buy it if it was listed as an intact mum. It is struck, therefore not intact. I know it's lame, but in collectors, it's all in the wordage. Like an "original" 1966 GTO which has been repainted.

[I Swan]

Intact but slightly defaced or cancelled.

More desirable than completely ground (all other things being equal).

From what I've seen collectors want them totally untouched any marks and it is considered ground. I personally don't mind lightly struck examples.
.

[Milsurp Collector]

Any ideas on a ballpark value?

Type 44 Carbines are less common than other Arisakas. Value varies depending on which variation it is - there are 3 variations depending on the location of the screws in the nose cap and the length of the nose cap. The screws were moved farther apart and the nose cap was lengthened to make the assembly stronger -

(web photo)


and the other usual factors such as matching numbers, originality of finish, overall condition and completeness, and condition of the mum (in that order) but they usually run $800 to $1000.

Here are mine. You can see they are all the first variation with the screws close together and the shortest nose cap, which is the most common.



I've been reading Shots Fired in Anger by Lt. Col. John B. George lately. In it describes his experiences on Guadalcanal as an Army Lieutenant. He was a gun nut amongst a lot of guns and the last few chapters of his book are a pretty good analysis of Japanese small arms based on handling and testing several captured Japanese weapons. He liked the Type 38 carbine and he even carried one for a short time (the M1 Carbine wasn't yet available when he was on Guadalcanal). He didn't like the Type 44 carbine because he thought the bayonet assembly made it nose heavy and ruined the balance compared to the Type 38 carbine.

It's an interesting book about part of the Guadalcanal campaign. Throughout the book there are one-page essays about some aspect of the Japanese soldier. He thought their offensive tactics were really stupid but he had a grudging respect for their toughness, bravery, and ability as jungle fighters. He noted that by the time organized enemy activity was declared over most of his men were using Japanese canteens, mess kits, and backpacks because they were better than their GI equipment.