NorCal C&R Shoot @ Oroville June 28th!

[Kappy]

Ian, some have expressed some concerns about the "cease fire" calls. Two main issues;

1: It's a long firing line end to end, and with the range noise, many can't hear it called. Then they have somebody yelling at them, for something they couldn't hear!

2: Some just get into their shooting "groove", and a cease fire gets called. That's frustrating as hell, especially when you're shooting for a "zero in" grouping.



How about a 5 min warning, with something the whole range can hear like a freon boat horn, or even a car horn. Three short blasts for a 5 min warning, one long blast for a cease fire?

I've never actually had a problem there, but that may just be chance. I don't go there more than twice a year. Only when I want more than 100yds.

Mind you, I always go with a buddy. I drive down range and set up targets while my buddy sits at the bench with the guns. I always have a gun on my hip, just in case.

When we need a cease fire, we just yell to the people on either side and hold our hands up. They spread the word and... we're good to go down range.


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[TRAP55]

Kap, I'm talking about our group, we usually take over the whole range and monitor the safety of everybody there.
Some non-CalGunners have got a little pithy when told to get with the program, or leave. Quite a few have come over and thanked us for bringing some order to the range, mainly at Spenceville.
Oroville shooters are pretty orderly, polite, and safety conscious compared to Spenceville. Last time at Spenceville, was the most serious, it got a little tense for a minute.
Had a couple of tatted out bangers show up late in the day. We still had members clearly visible down range setting up targets, and one starts loading up a Glock .40.
I yelled to him "we have a cease fire, clear the weapon and put it down."
Gave me a sideways "screw you" glance and ignored me while continuing to load the gun. So I yelled to them again. Ignored me, and racked the slide getting ready to shoot.
That's when I racked a round into the 870 Riot, in his direction, told him to set the gun down and step away from it, or I'd take his F'ing head off. Both of em heard and understood that real clear! Set the gun down on the bench and stepped back by their truck.
The one with the gun got a reaming from the other one in Spanish. Didn't catch all of it, but I got the jist of it. Then they packed up and left.
Oroville by far, has been a much better experience!

[Dutch3]

In my experience, Oroville runs pretty well as self-policed.

Sure, I have seen some "oops" moments during cease-fires, but generally not overly concerning. Most people get the hint pretty quickly.

I have heard grumbling from some shooters like, "don't call a cease fire when we are getting ready to shoot" and similar. Maybe a 5-minute warning is a good idea. It might be an alien concept to the locals, though.

One thing is certain. When Surplus Sr. announces "The range is HOT!!!", everyone hears it.

[Kappy]

Kap, I'm talking about our group, we usually take over the whole range and monitor the safety of everybody there.

Some non-CalGunners have got a little pithy when told to get with the program, or leave. Quite a few have come over and thanked us for bringing some order to the range, mainly at Spenceville.

Oroville shooters are pretty orderly, polite, and safety conscious compared to Spenceville. Last time at Spenceville, was the most serious, it got a little tense for a minute.

Had a couple of tatted out bangers show up late in the day. We still had members clearly visible down range setting up targets, and one starts loading up a Glock .40.

I yelled to him "we have a cease fire, clear the weapon and put it down."

Gave me a sideways "screw you" glance and ignored me while continuing to load the gun. So I yelled to them again. Ignored me, and racked the slide getting ready to shoot.

That's when I racked a round into the 870 Riot, in his direction, told him to set the gun down and step away from it, or I'd take his F'ing head off. Both of em heard and understood that real clear! Set the gun down on the bench and stepped back by their truck.

The one with the gun got a reaming from the other one in Spanish. Didn't catch all of it, but I got the jist of it. Then they packed up and left.

Oroville by far, has been a much better experience!

Understood.

I've never been to Spenceville. I've also never jumped out of an airplane. I hear both are risky.


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[surplus-addict]

Ian, some have expressed some concerns about the "cease fire" calls. Two main issues;
1: It's a long firing line end to end, and with the range noise, many can't hear it called. Then they have somebody yelling at them, for something they couldn't hear!
2: Some just get into their shooting "groove", and a cease fire gets called. That's frustrating as hell, especially when you're shooting for a "zero in" grouping.

How about a 5 min warning, with something the whole range can hear like a freon boat horn, or even a car horn. Three short blasts for a 5 min warning, one long blast for a cease fire?

It's annoying as hell, but have we ever had an accident? Nope. I take safety over "not-annoying". It might piss some off, but that's the price we pay for safety.

We've been doing these shoots for 2+ years now, and with zero injuries or accidents: that is a record we very much want to try to keep.

Although, I am interested in the 5 minute thing. We have a maritime air horn we could bring as well, that might be acceptable in conjunction with the yelling I am slightly concerned about making someone pull a shot because of the horn, though...

Think that would work? Do you think we should shout out what the air horn blasts mean during a ceasefire, or do you think going up to each new shooter that drives up would be a better idea?

[TRAP55]

It's annoying as hell, but have we ever had an accident? Nope. I take safety over "not-annoying". It might piss some off, but that's the price we pay for safety.

I'm talking about having both, because without it, a large group won't attend, and I'd like to see them there, so lets work on a solution?
Speaking of safety, at the last shoot I was at, do you know who it was that loaded up a rifle, put one in the chamber well behind the firing line, and walked through a group of people and kids, up to the firing line to shoot?
I didn't see it, and didn't hear about it, until well after the fact, or someone would have got a royal azz reaming!
Back on subject.
I see your point on the air horn, maybe a car horn somewhere in the middle of the line? The people closest to it would have a heads up and not be startled.
A 5 min warning would give everyone time to finish, and get their weapons cleared.
Telling the new arrivals whats up is a good idea too. Keep em coming!

[surplus-addict]

I'm talking about having both, because without it, a large group won't attend, and I'd like to see them there, so lets work on a solution?
Speaking of safety, at the last shoot I was at, do you know who it was that loaded up a rifle, put one in the chamber well behind the firing line, and walked through a group of people and kids, up to the firing line to shoot?
I didn't see it, and didn't hear about it, until well after the fact, or someone would have got a royal azz reaming!
Back on subject.
I see your point on the air horn, maybe a car horn somewhere in the middle of the line? The people closest to it would have a heads up and not be startled.
A 5 min warning would give everyone time to finish, and get their weapons cleared.
Telling the new arrivals whats up is a good idea too. Keep em coming!

Nope, didn't hear about that, and that's completely unacceptable. Who said this?

Note to anyone coming:

if you do anything that reckless and stupid, you are not welcome at any other shoots, henceforth and forever more.



I'm not seeing the way we've been calling cease fire as a problem persay, as I haven't had ANYBODY walk up to me and say anything, and we've been doing this for 2 years.

Still, if there is room for improvement: why not? Just makes it better I'm on board with you on this, let's modify it.

Are car horns really loud enough for that? And most importantly: are they out of the ordinary enough that people will actually notice and connect the dots? I'm thinking they will be, but I'm not sure.

I wonder if a regular good 'ole megaphone would work. It's an excuse to get one

[justin4fun]

I believe I can borrow a megaphone. I will make the call and let you know.

I did not witness the event you are talking about Trap but did hear the complaints from other calgunners. We all are responsible for everyone's safety. I don't want any injuries worse than Ian has had already. It is a large group and tough to watch everyone all the time so I think it falls on everyone to help police the range. I don't think exile is the answer for a first offense but a butt chewing is definitely in order.

[surplus-addict]

I believe I can borrow a megaphone. I will make the call and let you know.

I did not witness the event you are talking about Trap but did hear the complaints from other calgunners. We all are responsible for everyone's safety. I don't want any injuries worse than Ian has had already. It is a large group and tough to watch everyone all the time so I think it falls on everyone to help police the range. I don't think exile is the answer for a first offense but a butt chewing is definitely in order.

Walking behind the line with a loaded rifle is a serious, serious offense: almost as bad as waiving a loaded firearm about. A butt chewing should be the LEAST of their worries.

My burns were from BBQ chicken; those don't count

Sweeeet, megaphone of awesomness

And hey: you still gotta see my new mosins!

[justin4fun]

Walking behind the line with a loaded rifle is a serious, serious offense: almost as bad as waiving a loaded firearm about. A butt chewing should be the LEAST of their worries.

My burns were from BBQ chicken; those don't count

Sweeeet, megaphone of awesomness

And hey: you still gotta see my new mosins!

Every time I have been you have had at least one band aid by the time I left. I look forward to checking out your mosins and feeling them up when you aren't looking.

I agree on how serious it is but I don't think the shooter realized what was done and how it made those around feel. I don't think it was intentional and could be corrected with a stern discussion or TRAP racking the riot again. Some shooters are not as familiar with shooting or gun handling and I don't feel we should ban them without trying to teach them first. That is why I was trying to get everyone to help watch and patrol each other. I don't want others to think they should not speak up when issues arrive. I have no issues getting involved for safety sake and if I make enemy's over it so be it. If it was me I would not like getting yelled at but even experienced shooters can make mistakes and need to be told to pay attention.

[TRAP55]

surplus-addict, you have a PM.

[surplus-addict]

Every time I have been you have had at least one band aid by the time I left. I look forward to checking out your mosins and feeling them up when you aren't looking.

I agree on how serious it is but I don't think the shooter realized what was done and how it made those around feel. I don't think it was intentional and could be corrected with a stern discussion or TRAP racking the riot again. Some shooters are not as familiar with shooting or gun handling and I don't feel we should ban them without trying to teach them first. That is why I was trying to get everyone to help watch and patrol each other. I don't want others to think they should not speak up when issues arrive. I have no issues getting involved for safety sake and if I make enemy's over it so be it. If it was me I would not like getting yelled at but even experienced shooters can make mistakes and need to be told to pay attention.

Bolded.

I am officially pissed.

If others see me making mistakes (which it seems others have or think they have, I probably have at one point or another), I want you to take me aside IMMEDIATELY and talk to me. Hell, ask me to leave; I'll try my best to do it if I am a safety issue.

Safety is my biggest concern, and if you see me screwing up TELL ME.

Seeing something wrong and not speaking up about it is just as bad. You're endangering others by letting something not safe pass.

If someone screws up, bring it up then and there.

If I or others mess up, it's not intentional, it means they didn't notice: let them know.

Yelled at does nothing, but a stern talking to is a must.

If others don't want me to come to the shoot, fine: I will not come to the shoot. Take a vote in the thread.

These aren't MY shoots, they are the Calgun NorCal C&R shoots that I happen to plan.

Edited to add: I am not upset at Justin, I am upset at whoever saw me F' up and didn't tell me.

[TRAP55]

I am upset at whoever saw me F' up and didn't tell me.

So am I, seeing it, and not saying something is just as bad
No one should hesitate to speak up, immediately!
Even if you only "think" something might be unsafe, call it out! Nobody should take offense with the person calling it out it either, whether they are mistaken or not. We are "all" range masters there, we all have an occasional lapse in focus, so we all have to monitor each other.

[Wicked Pete]

Kap, I'm talking about our group, we usually take over the whole range and monitor the safety of everybody there.
Some non-CalGunners have got a little pithy when told to get with the program, or leave. Quite a few have come over and thanked us for bringing some order to the range, mainly at Spenceville.
Oroville shooters are pretty orderly, polite, and safety conscious compared to Spenceville. Last time at Spenceville, was the most serious, it got a little tense for a minute.
Had a couple of tatted out bangers show up late in the day. We still had members clearly visible down range setting up targets, and one starts loading up a Glock .40.
I yelled to him "we have a cease fire, clear the weapon and put it down."
Gave me a sideways "screw you" glance and ignored me while continuing to load the gun. So I yelled to them again. Ignored me, and racked the slide getting ready to shoot.
That's when I racked a round into the 870 Riot, in his direction, told him to set the gun down and step away from it, or I'd take his F'ing head off. Both of em heard and understood that real clear! Set the gun down on the bench and stepped back by their truck.
The one with the gun got a reaming from the other one in Spanish. Didn't catch all of it, but I got the jist of it. Then they packed up and left.
Oroville by far, has been a much better experience!

Wow.

[Dutch3]

I might add that shooting hard targets at close range is probably not a good idea. I have been hit several times with ricochet fragments at Spenceville and Oroville, including at Calguns shoots.

I was at Oroville a couple of weeks ago with Wicked Pete. Somebody (not a Calgunner as far as I know) set up a steel plate target at about 30 yards and began shooting it with a rifle. The plate was swinging around and jacket metal was flying everywhere. We left shortly.