Mosin Nagant accuracy test! :D

[ziconceo]

Hey everyone! I'm almost finished with putting my PE sniper scope on my 1938 all matching Tula mosin nagant with a .311 slugged bore. And since I reload I'm going to find out which powder I have works best for low powered shots. For starters I am only using Winchester white box brass cases. Second, I am only using Winchester large PISTOL primers. Why? because I CAN thats why! Pictures of the finished rifle will be up next week. Here are the loads:


CASE: Winchester
PRIMER: Winchester large pistol primer
POWDER: BL-C (2) 30 grains
BULLET: Sierra .311 Dia 150 Grain soft point NON boat-tail
GROUPING AT 50 YARDS: 6 inch 5 shot group
CASE: Winchester
PRIMER: Winchester large pistol primer
POWDER: BL-C (2) 25 grains
BULLET: Sierra .311 Dia 150 Grain soft point NON boat-tail
GROUPING AT 50 YARDS: 6 inch 5 shot group

CASE: Winchester
PRIMER: Winchester large pistol primer
POWDER: BL-C (2) 20 grains
BULLET: Sierra .311 Dia 150 Grain soft point NON boat-tail
GROUPING AT 50 YARDS: 6 inch 5 shot group

CASE: Winchester
PRIMER: Winchester large pistol primer
POWDER: Accurate 4350 30 grains
BULLET: Sierra .311 Dia 150 Grain soft point NON boat-tail
GROUPING AT 50 YARDS: 6 inch 5 shot group

CASE: Winchester
PRIMER: Winchester large pistol primer
POWDER: Accurate 4350 25 grains
BULLET: Sierra .311 Dia 150 Grain soft point NON boat-tail
GROUPING AT 50 YARDS: 6 inch 5 shot group

CASE: Winchester
PRIMER: Winchester large pistol primer
POWDER: Accurate 4350 20 grains
BULLET: Sierra .311 Dia 150 Grain soft point NON boat-tail
GROUPING AT 50 YARDS: 6 inch 5 shot group

UPDATE 11/15/2013: Just went to the range and wow do these loads suck!!!!! but I'm not 100% exactly sure why because there are a few factors to consider...

1. oil from case sizing fouling the powder
2. delayed shots
3. wrong speed/charge
4. all of the above


First off I did a control group... this is ppu at 100 yards:



These are the experimental rounds at just 50 yards!!!





These are the experimental cases after firing. The cases leaked gas because the rbcs dies sized them too small but now that the cases are form fitted it shouldn't happen again. No pressure signs on the primers at all, so no risk in using pistol primers for rifle rounds





conclusion: dont EVER use reduced loads for fmj bullets because it just sucks!. The only reduced loads in a rifle should be used with cast lead bullets! Ill do a test on cast lead rounds soon

[ziconceo]

^ I'm actually not going to put surplus in this rifle, I bought 80 rounds of PPU ammo ( 150 Grain soft point ) and that will be the control group. I should've mentioned that!

[jdouglas]

^ I'm actually not going to put surplus in this rifle, I bought 80 rounds of PPU ammo ( 150 Grain soft point ) and that will be the control group. I should've mentioned that!

Too elite for the poor man's surplus ammo eh?

(Though if I'd put as much work into a Mosin as it appears you have, I probably wouldn't shoot corrosive either.)

[Armistice]

Why no surplus? That PPU is corrosive if I recall anyway if that's what you're avoiding

[Vlad 11]

Where did you get this load data?

Seems like an awful low loading for a slow powder, you cant necessarily just cut a load in half for reduced power.

I am also of the opinion of primers being used for their intended purpose. Pistol primers have thinner cups

I think your risking pierced primers and pressure spikes

[emcon5]

I am also of the opinion of primers being used for their intended purpose. Pistol primers have thinner cups

I think your risking pierced primers and pressure spikes

Agreed.

[ziconceo]

@Vlad 11 I didn't get the data from anywhere haha I'm just trying new loads, the mosin nagant can handle a CASE FULL OF PISTOL POWDER without blowing up so I think its a very safe testing platform. Also, I have never encountered any problems with using pistol primers in any of my previous loads (even hot loads). I am not recommending it to others but I've had nothing but great results with them and it lets me buy only one type of primer

For those that dont know, the ppu ammo I'm using is this: modern non-corrosive factory ammo.

[Crunch130]

OP, where did you come up with that reduced load data? I have my doubts about reducing 4350 that far, and I'm quite confident 4831 won't work well at all. You'll get incomplete combustion and it will leave a bunch of unburned powder in the barrel. Velocity will be inconsistent and accuracy will suffer. Hodgdon recommends you make reduced loads with a faster powder, namely H4895:

http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Youth%20Loads.pdf

They have tested many loads reduced to 60% of max listed in their standard data center:

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

So with a 49.5 grain max charge of H4895 for a 150 grain bullet, the reduced load works out to about 30 grains. I have used these type of reduced loads in my 7.62 NATO Israeli K98 Mauser and a No1 MK3 Enfield, and they work great for target practice.

You might want to do a little research before you use pistol primers in a rifle. Rifle cartridges run higher pressure, so the primer cup is thicker metal. Standard pressure rifle loads will cause pistol primers to fail at the firing pin indentation and vent gas towards your face. These reduced loads may still have enough pressure for that. Why take a chance?

Safe shooting,
Crunch

Edit - I started this before the last three posts went up, and got busy on other things. So I'm in agreement with Vlad & Emcon, because we don't just make up reloading data from thin air.

[ziconceo]

^While I would love to use H4895, I don't have any and I have no money because all of it went into upgrading the mosin. I also know that powder loads are VERY conservitive to prevent lawsuits. I've ran 5 grains of all of my powders and have gotten very decent groups at 20 yards with cast lead bullets. Thanks for your concern though, I honestly appreciate it

[6mmintl]

Your loads are way low and you will get poor performance and possible hang fires/possible stuck bullets in the bore.

If your looking for a short range 50-100-200 yards loads try cast bullets (you can buy pre-sized gas checked lubed bullets from many suppliers) in the 150-200 grain range over 16-18 grains of Aliant 2400

Your throwing good bullets and powder in the wrong direction, cast bullets are competitive for target shooting and Silhouette shooting out to 200 for a beginner, out to 600 yards with a little experience and advanced loading techniques.

If you need help/advice/examples I am in redwood city and you can contact me to come over and cast some bullets/load.

[ziconceo]

We'll see, this is a test because I've never seen anyone else try it. Besides, it's only like 10$ worth of bullets

[TRAP55]

You are aware, that a reduced load, can be just as dangerous as an overload?
A load can only be reduced to a point where it becomes dangerous, the same as it can be increased to a point that it becomes dangerous.

You might want to do a little research before you use pistol primers in a rifle. Rifle cartridges run higher pressure, so the primer cup is thicker metal. Standard pressure rifle loads will cause pistol primers to fail at the firing pin indentation and vent gas towards your face. These reduced loads may still have enough pressure for that. Why take a chance?

Crunch is spot on here, you are begging for a face full using pistol primers. Ya think there might be a reason they are called PISTOL primers???
A reduced load, that has been reduced past the point of safe, can cause a pressure spike, with about the same results as a double charge. First thing that will come undone is that primer, and a Mosin doesn't have the same gas shielding ability that a Mauser has.
If you can't afford rifle primers, PM me and I'll swap you some for the pistol primers. I would rather read about your future post of a good load, then one about your trip to the ER.

[vincentvangerven]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BmEGm-mraE

these are the silliest loads i've heard of in along time

[MasterChief]

"...I didn't get the data from anywhere haha I'm just trying new loads, the mosin nagant can handle a CASE FULL OF PISTOL POWDER without blowing up so I think its a very safe testing platform..."

Is this a bad joke? Dark humor? Sarcasm?

You might want to consider taking a safety observer to the range when you go and make sure the cell phone can conect to 911. If you post the address here we'll write your Mom.

[ziconceo]

It's not a joke buddy watch this video and you'll have proof. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Bzl...e_gdata_player Oh, by the way, I'm testing the shots from a gun vise and pulling a string attracted to trigger. I'll be safe