C&R Noob

[aohelsuks]

I'm expanding from AK's and AR's and new production hunting rifles/handguns to some bolt action WW2 for my collection. If I want to buy a C&R rifle from a private party locally in San Diego is there a way to cash and carry without fees dros etc? I have no FFL or desire to get one.
Second question, what is the best in C&R in .308 for the money, accuracy (man sized target ~300yds) etc...?

[thefifthspeed]

You don't need anything to buy a C&R rifle as long as it's 50+ years old and it's within CA. That's why it's called cash and carry. You need a license when you transfer out of state. Off the top of my head I can't think of any .308 C&R milsurps right now.

[porkchop]

probably an indian enfield, known as an ishapore 2a. they are chambered in 7.62 nato though, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifle_7.62mm_2A1 . you can get them for just under $200 normally. personally i would look into some kind of mauser or the mosin nagant, especially since 7.62x54r is pretty cheap still. you can get mosins for under $100, and as long as they are in good condition they are generally good shooters

[locktime]

There are Argentine Mausers chambered in 7.62 x 51.

[duenor]

there are TONS of C&R guns chambered in 308.

C&R is defined as:

1. on ATF C&R list
or
2. designated C&R by a curator
or
3. over 50 years old
or
4. significant part of its value from its oddity or rarity

so any rifle, commercially made or military, that fulfills any one of those four requirements is c&r cash and carry.

incidentally, there are FAL rifles that are C&R. just don't expect to save money there...

[caldude]

If it doesn't have to be .308, get a Garand. Yes, the 30-06 has more kick, but you can usually find it cheaper, and the Garand is plenty accurate out to 300 yds.

[RedDawn]

Cruise around the "Private Firearms Sales" forum for some great deals.

[Gunaria]

Ah the C&R rifle that you & I plus everybody else wants in .308 is the Spanish FR8 (FR-8). But it seems that people are wanting big bucks for their babies nowadays, around $400 and up. There's also some mausers that have been rebarreled for .308 and a semi-auto French MAS 49/56 but those are a hit or miss. Plus the other that have been mentioned above.

For good C&R deals you have to search high & low and be patient. Just remember they are not making these anymore (yeah no daaww).

[vf111]

If you pick up a C&R rifle in "308", please remember firing 308 Winchester in most C&R rifles chambered for 7.62NATO can result in a Kaboom. See this article for more info:

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2006/308vs762nato/index.asp

[-hanko]

there are TONS of C&R guns chambered in 308.

C&R is defined as:

1. on ATF C&R list
or
2. designated C&R by a curator
or
3. over 50 years old
or
4. significant part of its value from its oddity or rarity

so any rifle, commercially made or military, that fulfills any one of those four requirements is c&r cash and carry.

CA, from the standpoint of C&R/cash & carry recognizes guns more than 50 years old. The state ignores the other 3 federal C&R qualified groups.

C&R's in general are going up fast in price. FR8's are very cool. Israeli Mausers work well. Enfields were converted at the arsenal in Ishapore and vary in quality and condition. MAS conversions, iirc by Century, are hit and miss. South American conversions should be just fine. Any will hit a man-sized target at 300 yd, assuming an adequate shooter.

If you need the cash/carry transaction, I'd look for an FR8 as the all around handiest, or an Izzy Mauser if something longer/heavier would work.

-hanko

[aohelsuks]

how much does an Israeli Mauser run?

[CowboyShooter]

You don't need anything to buy a C&R rifle as long as it's 50+ years old and it's within CA. That's why it's called cash and carry. You need a license when you transfer out of state.

so this has been something I've been wondering about too... never purchased a C&R long gun, but really want to get a vintage Garand. So if I find one in CA I can pay for it and walk out of the store or gun show w/ it? But if it's on a website like Gunbroker and out of state, it'd have to come in through a FFL03?

[duenor]

CA, from the standpoint of C&R/cash & carry recognizes guns more than 50 years old. The state ignores the other 3 federal C&R qualified groups.

C&R's in general are going up fast in price. FR8's are very cool. Israeli Mausers work well. Enfields were converted at the arsenal in Ishapore and vary in quality and condition. MAS conversions, iirc by Century, are hit and miss. South American conversions should be just fine. Any will hit a man-sized target at 300 yd, assuming an adequate shooter.

If you need the cash/carry transaction, I'd look for an FR8 as the all around handiest, or an Izzy Mauser if something longer/heavier would work.

-hanko

Yes, I should have noted that.
Cash and carry for any of those four applies only in states that recognize the 03 as it was intended. in ca, firearms must be over 50.

you can however go to other stats, cash and carry, then go back to ca.

or, get an 03 ffl and get it mailed straight to you.

[run8]

I'm wondering this too, pardon my ignorance on the subject, but I'm new to this C&R side of things as well.

So the term "Cash & Carry", in reference to an C&R long gun over 50yrs old and fitting within those four mentioned items.

This would allow for only a private transaction at say a garage sale, or two private parties or what about gun shows?

Also in this case, since its' a C&R over 50yrs old, under this "Cash & Carry" term it does or doesn't have to be registered?

Additionally, as it's asked about below by CowboyShooter, does this apply to retail sales such as those at Big 5 or any other gun shop?

Inquiring minds want to know, lots of questions, but this is the right place to be. I'm so glad I found this web site a while back, only wish I was keeping ontop of the posts more often than I am now.

Thanks,

Frank

so this has been something I've been wondering about too... never purchased a C&R long gun, but really want to get a vintage Garand. So if I find one in CA I can pay for it and walk out of the store or gun show w/ it? But if it's on a website like Gunbroker and out of state, it'd have to come in through a FFL03?

[thefifthspeed]

I'm wondering this too, pardon my ignorance on the subject, but I'm new to this C&R side of things as well.

So the term "Cash & Carry", in reference to an C&R long gun over 50yrs old and fitting within those four mentioned items.

This would allow for only a private transaction at say a garage sale, or two private parties or what about gun shows?

Correct. As long as it's a long gun and doesn't fit any banned areas of fedreal or state you are good to go. Garage sales, private parties, gun shows, FTF from dealings on calguns are all good as long as it's within the state.

Also in this case, since its' a C&R over 50yrs old, under this "Cash & Carry" term it does or doesn't have to be registered?

No long guns are registered, except assualt weapons. So you cash and carry and then you stick it in your safe or whatever, no need to send in any paper work. Now when we are talking pistols that's a different story. C&R pistols still need to go through an 01 FFL but in the event that you aquire a C&R license you can FTF C&R pistols in other states (say you go to NV and buy 1 at a gun show). If you were to do this there is a form you have to fill out and send into the DOJ to "register" the pistol.

Additionally, as it's asked about below by CowboyShooter, does this apply to retail sales such as those at Big 5 or any other gun shop?

Inquiring minds want to know, lots of questions, but this is the right place to be. I'm so glad I found this web site a while back, only wish I was keeping ontop of the posts more often than I am now.

Thanks,

Frank

If a shop is selling a C&R you cannot cash and carry, just the rules. You can however use a C&R to take it that day if the shop knows the law. Furthermore if you obtain a COE (certficate of eligibility) along with your C&R you can avoid the 10 day wait period with a C&R pistol.

If you don't have a C&R yet it is the best 30 bucks you can spend money wise. Aside from getting good deals out of state many major online gun (Midway, Brownells) stores give you "dealer pricing" and you will save big in just 1 order.