Egyptian HAKIM 8mm- symbols 3 stars and half moon?

[Mustang]

Hell...got me interested in my dates...

Two 1960's: (s/n's 28086 and 28549) The s/n on the second one appears to be incorrectly ep's as 28049




and a 1966 (s/n 47219)

[Calplinker]

Arrogance

No fighting here, just attempting to pass on info so people don't unknowingly break CA law. If those that choose to, do it, that's their choice and problem, but denying that the law exist on a public forum and thereby encouraging people to make an illegal purchase is just irresponsible and not needed especially in todays political climate.

No one is advocating breaking the law. The law is clear. To be CA eligible as C&R the long gun must have been manufactured 50 years prior to the date of transfer.

Guns do not have month and day stamps on them, only years.

Your position seems to be (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that to be extra careful, you prefer to wait until year 51.

My position is that barring some compelling evidence otherwise, I accept 50 calendar years as the threshold at which I am comfortable buying.

What would be compelling evidence? Good record keeping by manufacturers that is widely published and generally accepted would suffice. Good example of this is date ranges for Garands and M1 Carbines. Those records are widely available and can usually provide a range of 6-9 months of when the rifle came off the assembly line.

These records are not available for the Hakim, so I go with 50 years. Not 49, not 51, but 50.

It really is as simple as that.

[Calplinker]

Hakim's

Luv d arguments you guys posted here, it just gives me a lot of stuff to learn bout Hakims!!. But one thing we all can agree on is that " HAKIMS ARE BAD *** ! RIGHT ! AMEN ?

They are definitely a lot of fun to shoot. My advice is to stock up on the surplus 8mm as it is getting harder and harder to find. Interestingly enough, mine doesn't like the Yugo "sniper" stuff and instead prefers the cheapo stuff.

Upper hand guard seems to be made of unobtanium and not wood as it appears. Getting a spare rifle for parts is not a bad idea while they are still available. I'm going to do this soon.

If you don't already have them, you might also consider a spare firing pin and extractor. Good to have in the inventory. Sarco (or perhaps Samco) had them a few years ago. Not sure if they still do. If not, check gunbroker as I've seen them there.

Enjoy them as they are beginning to disappear.

[TRICKSTER]

Your position seems to be (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that to be extra careful, you prefer to wait until year 51.

No, my position is, and for some reason you don't want to comprehend it, is that in the case of the Hakim and other rifles that don't have detailed manufacturing records, you can not honestly say as a fact, or testify with certainty a court of law that a firearm with a date of 1963 is for a fact 50 years old. California law requires that it be at least 50 years old in order for you to have it shipped to you via your 03FFL. Not 49 1/2years, not 49 3/4 years but 50 years. As of today, for a firearm to be 50 years old, it you would have to have been manufactured prior to 1-11-1963. You may not like the fact that I have pointed this out because it appears to have made you question some of your purchases, but the law is clear.

[knucklehead0202]

No, my position is, and for some reason you don't want to comprehend it, is that in the case of the Hakim and other rifles that don't have detailed manufacturing records, you can not honestly say as a fact, or testify with certainty a court of law that a firearm with a date of 1963 is for a fact 50 years old. California law requires that it be at least 50 years old in order for you to have it shipped to you via your 03FFL. Not 49 1/2years, not 49 3/4 years but 50 years. As of today, for a firearm to be 50 years old, it you would have to have been manufactured prior to 1-11-1963. You may not like the fact that I have pointed this out because it appears to have made you question some of your purchases, but the law is clear.

weee oooh weee oooh fun police! sounds like you just enjoy hearing yourself talk. you've reiterated the same thing about a dozen times and while i can't speak for everyone, i'm annoyed by it and i reckon not the only one. this is the c&r forum and most us understand the implications of a ftf cash&carry transfer between private parties. most that don't, generally ask when looking to do so. continually interjecting as if you are the queen DOJ yourself goes beyond trying to be helpful, but seemingly fulfills some sick need of yours to either belittle other people, or perhaps just increase your post count. whatever the case, do it somewhere else.

back on topic, hakims are very fun to own and shoot. as was mentioned before, it's a good idea to clean them THOROUGHLY before shooting. also, there's a guy on gunboards, jb-something-or-other, it's been while but he makes a metal tool to adjust the gas valve to tailor your hakim to the ammo being fired(not turkish!). his price is reasonable and the tool works great. aside from that, well-thought-out handloads or certain surplus ammo works great. if you do reload, adjusting your gas system with the tool will also allow you to not launch your brass into the next time zone. also, if you want to save the brass, put a piece of rubber hose on the brass deflector(that little metal loop on the right side) so it doesn't ding up your brass. the mention of it being about like shooting an SKS is exactly what i'd relate the recoil to, good luck on your hunt and i hope you find one and have fun with it.

[Calplinker]

Comprehension

No, my position is clear and for some reason you choose not to comprehend it.

I have no obligation to prove or testify to anything. The burden of proof is not mine. CA law states 50 years.

If you choose to parse that and fret over month and day, knock yourself out. If I were in the market, I'd buy a Hakim dated 1963. You wouldn't.

Absent verified records, 50 years is 50 years, and not 49 years, 8 months.

Its all academic, but to illustrate my point, at what calendar date this year would you be comfortable purchasing a Hakim dated 1963?

If your answer is 12/31, then you have set a threshold of comfort different than mine.

Frankly, I'm not worried about CalDOJ trying to make a case that a rifle with non-existent Egyptian record keeping MAY have rolled off the assembly line a few months (or days) prior to 50 years to the date of a PPT transfer.

Somehow, I think they have actual work to do.

[TRICKSTER]

weee oooh weee oooh fun police! sounds like you just enjoy hearing yourself talk. you've reiterated the same thing about a dozen times and while i can't speak for everyone, i'm annoyed by it and i reckon not the only one. this is the c&r forum and most us understand the implications of a ftf cash&carry transfer between private parties. most that don't, generally ask when looking to do so. continually interjecting as if you are the queen DOJ yourself goes beyond trying to be helpful, but seemingly fulfills some sick need of yours to either belittle other people, or perhaps just increase your post count. whatever the case, do it somewhere else.

I have reiterated the same thing several times because someone here keeps (intentionally?) misrepresenting what I stated along with what is required by law and specifically asked me to correct them if they were wrong. If you don't like it, don't read it. It is quite simple, if you don't like my posting, don't ask me to correct you or post erroneous information that can get a fellow member here into trouble.

[KAIFS]

http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/curios-relics/p-5300-11-firearms-curios-or-relics-list.pdf

page 23 of the PDF, however, PG22 of the publication.

7th line from the bottom...

________________________
with that said, my comfort level is NOT all there, per say if I wanted to sell a 1969 Hakim to a C&R holder, while I am aware it is less than 50years old... so its like they got you by the marbles both ways. I just like to cover my hinder. Despite the fact that:
there are 3 different criteria for C&Rs

1) Any firearm 50 yrs or older in its original chambering. Weapon with any major alterations remove the C&R exemption (not like a sight change, but lets say you replaced a stock..)

2) Any firearm on the approved C&R list found on the ATF website. Its not all that complete, but for the purpose of this discussion HAKIM is on it, along with Rasheed, actually.

3) Any firearm connected to a historic place or event. This would need to be proven, and so paperwork with the gun would be needed, certifications obtained, blah blah blah...

[TRICKSTER]

http://www.atf.gov/publications/fire...elics-list.pdf
page 23 of the PDF, however, PG22 of the publication.

7th line from the bottom...

________________________
with that said, my comfort level is NOT all there, per say if I wanted to sell a 1969 Hakim to a C&R holder, while I am aware it is less than 50years old... so its like they got you by the marbles both ways. I just like to cover my hinder. Despite the fact that:
there are 3 different criteria for C&Rs

1) Any firearm 50 yrs or older in its original chambering. Weapon with any major alterations remove the C&R exemption (not like a sight change, but lets say you replaced a stock..)

2) Any firearm on the approved C&R list found on the ATF website. Its not all that complete, but for the purpose of this discussion HAKIM is on it, along with Rasheed, actually.

3) Any firearm connected to a historic place or event. This would need to be proven, and so paperwork with the gun would be needed, certifications obtained, blah blah blah...

The is no question as to the Hakim being C&R. The problem comes with the State of CA and their Penal Code Sections 27545 and 27965 which require that all firearms go through a 01 FFL unless they are long guns and at least 50 years old.
In the case of that beautiful Hakim that you are listing, there is no question that it is C&R and 50 years old, so you are good to go selling to a 03FFL in CA.

[knucklehead0202]

No, my position is clear and for some reason you choose not to comprehend it.

I have no obligation to prove or testify to anything. The burden of proof is not mine. CA law states 50 years.

If you choose to parse that and fret over month and day, knock yourself out. If I were in the market, I'd buy a Hakim dated 1963. You wouldn't.

Absent verified records, 50 years is 50 years, and not 49 years, 8 months.

Its all academic, but to illustrate my point, at what calendar date this year would you be comfortable purchasing a Hakim dated 1963?

If your answer is 12/31, then you have set a threshold of comfort different than mine.

Frankly, I'm not worried about CalDOJ trying to make a case that a rifle with non-existent Egyptian record keeping MAY have rolled off the assembly line a few months (or days) prior to 50 years to the date of a PPT transfer.

Somehow, I think they have actual work to do.

lol, the 2 guys that work at DOJ and never answer the phone, are probably on here scouting C&R's to buy as we speak. Trickster is probably one of them, trying to narrow the field by being obnoxious while he buys things and we're trying to get over how annoying his repeated posts are....

[TRICKSTER]

goes beyond trying to be helpful, but seemingly fulfills some sick need of yours to either belittle other people, or perhaps just increase your post count.

lol, the 2 guys that work at DOJ and never answer the phone, are probably on here scouting C&R's to buy as we speak. Trickster is probably one of them, trying to narrow the field by being obnoxious while he buys things and we're trying to get over how annoying his repeated posts are....

oh no! maybe it's not really 50 years old and you can't prove it and the DOJ gestapo is gonna come break down your door and kill your family and haul you off to the Stalag for the criminally c&r-addicted that don't do their homework. oh sorry, nevermind, only an idiot would go off in that direction....neat rifle. i'm not crazy, much, somebody here will get the humor in the rest of that

Funny how you seem to be perfectly describing your own post.

[Calplinker]

Pontificating

Irony in all this is I was just rearranging guns in one of my safes and checked out my Hakim, which was actually made in 1960, not 61. It has the diamond and not the one after the 6.

So, here I am pontificating about my 61 being fare game in 2011 when all along it was actually a 60 and not a 61. Doh!!!

That's what I get for being fussy.

Trickster and I agree on one thing. If there are records available that show build date ranges, such as there are for M1's and Garands, then it would be wise to go by the most recent date as a rifle could very well have been made on the last day of the date range.

I'd also agree that by waiting 51, there would be absolutely no question as to age.

Fortunately for us, there aren't that many C&R's where this is an issue for us. Mosin's, Mausers, Russian SKS's, M1's, and K31's were just about all made prior to 1960. Unfortunately, many of these are drying up far too fast for my liking.

Even spare parts are getting tough to locate. I have a spare stock for my Hakim but not the upper hand guard. Try finding one of those anywhere for any price. Easier to just buy a second rifle.

[RailroadGunner]

I have one, they are a blast to shoot!

[TRAP55]

Now that captainsavaho's thread has been completely hijacked, I guess I'll add to it with a question.
If you're doing a FTF sale, when and why, would this be an issue?
Does the ATF really have the time and resources to pursue something this trivial?
Take a look at my "Old Winchester" thread, and it will give you idea of the magnitude, of how many rifles have changed hands with unknown dates, how many C&R's have been sold as "Antiques", Antiques sold as C&R's, and less than 50yr old guns sold as C&R's.
And that's just the Winchesters, and just the ones here in Calif, and just the ones on CG. Think about it.

[captainsavaho]

HAKIM !!!

U GUYS R ALL GREAT WITH INFOS , BUT LETS SEE SOME BAD *** HAKIMS!!!!