C & R handguns

[Powerkraut]

Profit isn't the sole defining factor, but it is pretty hard to prove 03 FFL abuse if you're not making any money doing it. Lends a lot more weight to the "expanding the collection" argument. Straw purchase is an interesting argument, but I think you hit the nail on the head that if you're not buying for a prohibited person it's probably a non-issue.

There are plenty of C&R group buys that happen, most requiring up-front money. I have yet to hear of any negative repercussions resulting from this.

@BigJ: Remember, lawyere tend to give you their most conservative interpretation of the law. Just because a lawyer advises against something doesn't mean it's illegal. Case in point would be all the retailers who won't ship to CA, won't ship mag rebuild kits, local dealers who wouldn't sell OLL's, and people who shy away from SSEs. This behavior is mostly people acting on the advice of their lawyers.

[paul0660]

My final take would be, dealers have to jump through a lot of hoops when applying and are held to a very high standard while licensed, and afterwards. C&R folks go through about 5% of the grief. A C&R would have to do a lot of sketchy buying and selling to get a 01 upset enough to report it, but there is enough leeway in the laws, both ways, to make a play for dealing as an 03, even if it skirts the definition of dealing, a bad idea.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Another thing to think about is the C&R Handgun Report that you are required to send in within five days can take more than a month to get processed by CalDOJ, but the PPT DROS that your buyer completes will get processed immediately. That means if the handgun ever gets traced by law enforcement, you will show up as the most recent owner. Not a big deal since you can just explain to them about DOJ's lag time in processing the form, but something you should be aware of.

[BigJ]

It used to be 12070. Now it is 16960. The text is:



Highlighted by me, an important point.

Hello Jason!

Thanks Paul!

@BigJ: Remember, lawyere tend to give you their most conservative interpretation of the law. Just because a lawyer advises against something doesn't mean it's illegal. Case in point would be all the retailers who won't ship to CA, won't ship mag rebuild kits, local dealers who wouldn't sell OLL's, and people who shy away from SSEs. This behavior is mostly people acting on the advice of their lawyers.

Roger that. I asked for a conservative approach in fact.

Something that always echos in my head in situations like this is what John Machtinger says over and over again in his book "How to Own a Gun and Stay out of Jail" in California book: what you're doing might be perfectly legal, but can you afford to be the guy that finds out for the rest of us?

I cannot. So I don't. It is just that simple for me. It has to be.

[Powerkraut]

Roger that. I asked for a conservative approach in fact.

Something that always echos in my head in situations like this is what John Machtinger says over and over again in his book "How to Own a Gun and Stay out of Jail" in California book: what you're doing might be perfectly legal, but can you afford to be the guy that finds out for the rest of us?

I cannot. So I don't. It is just that simple for me. It has to be.

In general that is good advice and certainly something people who run group buys should consider.